Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Mexico
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-10-2009, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
5,548 posts, read 16,024,830 times
Reputation: 2755

Advertisements

"violent and criminal behavior ..." -- pretty much when the user is looking for money for another fix.

The fact that those drugs you mentioned are illegal hasn't stopped me from using them.

The fact that those drugs you mentioned are harmful has.

It's not that I probably wouldn't like the buzz, but a good Chardonney also provides a good buzz and is excellent with Salmon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-10-2009, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,103,101 times
Reputation: 49243
Quote:
Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
"violent and criminal behavior ..." -- pretty much when the user is looking for money for another fix.

The fact that those drugs you mentioned are illegal hasn't stopped me from using them.

The fact that those drugs you mentioned are harmful has.

It's not that I probably wouldn't like the buzz, but a good Chardonney also provides a good buzz and is excellent with Salmon.
But the fact they are illegal has stopped some I am sure. The argument about crime and drugs is a legit one, but I still think the cost of manufacturing them would be a lot more than we think...As I mentioned, cigarettes probably wouldn't cost a penny each to produce, but look at what it costs to buy a pack? People who want to get high on drugs would still have to pay the price and many would have to commit crimes to get the money, not to mention what our society could turn into...Except for pot I am just totally against this and I think it would open up a can of worms..

Nita
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 05:53 PM
 
1,399 posts, read 4,165,485 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by james57 View Post
[domain blocked due to spam] news is one source for these type of stories/rumors. You just Google [domain blocked due to spam] with the town name and you get all sorts of comments by people both in the local area and outside of it. Most I assume is only partially true. But sometimes you get local info that even the local newspapers don't publish. Especially if it is damaging to the community. Of course suppression of the truth in any form is not good. Thanks much to those who have commented on my questions. It is appreciated.

Jim
Last year the police chief of Palomas walked up to the US Immigration office at the border and asked for political asylum, as he told he was going to be killed if he remained in office. His staff had deserted the offices and he was trying to get his family out.
I'm not sure what finally happened to him.
Something that hasn't been addressed very much in the reporting and discussions about the border/cartel drug war is the role of the United States in this. The cartels and their many soldiers are fueled by billions of US dollars smuggled or otherwise laundered and sent back into Mexico. Though the Obama administration has recently started a program to interdict this smuggling it has largely gone unchecked for years. This money, courtesy of millions of US citizen drug consumers, has a hugely destabilizing effect on the Mexican economy, government and culture.
Another this is this: Over 90% of all weapons recovered from cartels can be traced back to the United States. Most of the murders being commited by these narco-terrorists are being committed with US sourced guns. Large caliber weapons, such as AK 47s, etc. are not legal to own in Mexico. They are considered military weapons and are very hard to get, as is ammunition.
Any cartel member with some C notes and a straw buyer can walk into a Texas gun show and buy enough weaponry to outfit a platoon. Assault style rifles can easily be converted back to their original form and purpose...made into automatic weapons (machine guns).
In January, a gun dealer at a Texas show told me, in the process of trying to sell me an AK, that if I was interested in "using up a lot of ammo in a hurry" ...wink-wink-wink.... he could get me all the "spare parts" I needed for less than a hundred bucks, and could also send me to someone who could do the work if I was not inclined.
Mexicans, including the Mexican gov't., are rightly PO'd that the US does little or nothing to stop the smuggling of thousands of dangerous weapons into their country, yet we point to the US drug problem and blame Mexico for it because that country is a smuggling route, as if our own citizens would just stop taking drugs if the Mexican border was magically sealed.
Same with the money....imagine the corrupting influence of billions of dollars in cash in the hands of criminals. How could a 9 grand a year Mexican cop turn down ten times that amount to just look the other way for an afternoon? Especially when his alternative is to get killed or have his family slaughtered?
Many people in the US are very concerned about children in Asia making athletic shoes and apparel in sweat shops, that their coffee is fair trade, their tuna isn't from a country that kills dolphins, that their diamonds aren't "bloody", on and on. How many of the same people don't give a damn that their 200 bucks for a bag of pot is helping to pay for weapons and ammo that murders thousands of people a year and destabilizes and corrupts an entire country?
Interesting questions...difficult answers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:06 PM
 
1,399 posts, read 4,165,485 times
Reputation: 1101
Here is a link to the article that prompted James to ask his questions. After reading it, I couldn't help but think that, so far, the citizens of Columbus are their own worst enemies. You decide. (James, thanks for citing the article.)
Mexico's drug war: Border drug war is too close for comfort - Los Angeles Times
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:50 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,527 posts, read 51,504,606 times
Reputation: 31318
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecpatl View Post
Here is a link to the article that prompted James to ask his questions. After reading it, I couldn't help but think that, so far, the citizens of Columbus are their own worst enemies. You decide. (James, thanks for citing the article.)
Mexico's drug war: Border drug war is too close for comfort - Los Angeles Times
Interesting story which can be read many ways. Written by Scott Kraft who has written 17 other articles for the Los Angeles times since 1997 Articles by Scott Kraft - Los Angeles Times

I did not see any glaring errors, but I am not an expert. I have been to the area in the past, to include Palomas. The article almost reads like a novel with a lot of questions still to be answered. A lot of speculation.


Rich
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 08:20 PM
 
101 posts, read 301,694 times
Reputation: 93
Default tecpatl

Great point made in your last paragraph.

And to anyone advocating the legalization of heroin, coke or meth all I can say you gotta be a a**hole.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 09:21 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,527 posts, read 51,504,606 times
Reputation: 31318
Does anyone remember when Governor Johnson wanted to legalize heroine and cocaine and wanted to eliminate kindergarten because he thought kids were in school too long as it was?

Governor Johnson was a Republican. As a Republican myself, I occasionally vote Democrat...




Rich
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 10:48 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,421,472 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1 View Post
First of all can someone explain to me how a Mexican family can just up and move to the U.S.? How is that legal?

Second, this is BAD news for New Mexico. We should be making their lives hell here. Drug dealers are the scum of the earth.

Lastly, education is the key to fighting the scourge of illegal drugs and drug addiction. Let me say it again: EDUCATION is the key.
Well -- they pack their boxes and suitcases and come right on over. It doesn't matter if it's legal, they will be given NM drivers licenses legal or not. It's very easy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2009, 10:55 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,421,472 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by james57 View Post
This message is for tecpatl who asked a legitimate question about the source for the story about drug cartel families moving into Columbus.

I was able to trace down the story via [domain blocked due to spam] News as mentioned previously. Seems the original story was by Scott Kraft of the Los Angeles Times, published on Feb.19th 2009. The story was then picked up and published by both the Las Cruses Sun News and Santa Fe New Mexican.

If one reads the story it references new people moving into Columbus who are suspected of being a mix of law abiding Mexicans and drug cartel families moving into Columbus recently.

The story mentions that the drug cartel wars have spread from Ciudad Juarez to Palomas which I assume is the sister border city to Columbus. 40 people have been murdered in Palomas which is a small border town in the last year. People there are justifiably frightened and some have bought property and moved into Columbus. It is suspected that drug cartel families may be included.

The story does explain that many Mexicans hold green cards in the US and thus can easily cross the border. Green cards can be obtained by the drug cartels. Can't say I'm surprised about that.

Anyway, that is where the story came from. I was trying to get info from locals in NM to see whether there was any truth to this story. Again from the standpoint of possible relocation to southern NM.

Note that so far there is no reported violence in Columbus based on what is happening. I would imagine the drug cartel families would want to maintain a low profile. But Columbus no longer even has a police dept. so anyone can get into the town. How long can safety be maintained?

Jim
All they need is a shopping visa or any kind of visa, if they want to cross at a legal port of entry. Otherwise they can come over illegally. Once here, they can simply obtain a NM drivers license that gives them proof of residence.

Someone over here on a shopping visa has no problem renting an apartment or house and simply moving in.

Most of the drug families have plenty of money and have the laser-visas that allow them to go back and forth as they please. They very often have second homes on the USA border because they've had it in their minds that the day might come that they would have to flee their enemies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2009, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,545,514 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Crack cocaine and methamphetamine are entirely different because both cause their users to go crazy with all kinds of bizarre psychotic, violent and criminal behavior. Even if legalized and cheaply available these two drugs will still cause all kinds of violence and harm.

So... Legalize pot, maybe. Legalize heroin, probably not but certainly practical. Legalize cocaine or methamphetamine, never. The latter two are far too harmful to society.
Your logic makes some sense, but the fact is that anyone who wants crack or cocaine or meth can obtain it now... and in doing so they usually support a dangerous and violent criminal ring.

Any way you slice it, fighting these drugs causes more harm than good. I think we are better off with regulation and taxation on all of it. Educate people and let them make a choice. The only reason we aren't doing it is because it would deprive the self-righteous of the illusion that the "war on everything that they wish wouldn't exist" is a war that they could ever possibly win.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Mexico
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top