Border Patrol - What is your experience? (Radium Springs, Capitan: 2009, how much)

[JDTH]

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

Geez Jim, You gotta leave your weed at home.

Always do! LOL

[Vinegaroon]

Border Patrol agents in New Mexico are subject not only to the Federal Constitution, but also to the stricter confines of the New Mexico State Constitution. Border Patrol Agents at a checkpoint may only subject an individual to brief questioning which should be limited to citizenship unless they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed.

When I lived down in Southern New Mexico, I used to pass through those checkpoints regularly. Every once in awhile, one of the agents would ask me something more than what my citizenship was. If they asked me where I was going, or to look at my vehicle registration, I would refuse, and tell them that I was a U.S. Citizen, and offer identification if they needed some. I would inform them that this is a free country, and it is none of their business where I was going, or what I was doing.

One time I had a buddy with Minnesota plates, and we were going from Las Cruces to go fish at Elephant Butte. The BP Agent asked us where we were going, and I told him "none of your business, I can go wherever I want." I thought the guy was going to have a seizure, but he instead let us go. In my opinion, we are not free country anymore if Federal Agents can demand to know where we are going, and what we are doing, unless they have some reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime is afoot.

As the motto from New Hampshire goes "Live Free or Die"

[cloudynm]

Originally Posted by lalahartma

Is there a list of these checkpoints?

Why do you ask? are you importing something? just kidding.

I don't think there is a list, but I will tell you this, in Lake Valley, where the grasses and brush grow very, very tall, alongside New Mexico Highway 152, you may see a couple of border patrol vehicles and agents just sitting in the middle of nowhere, lying in wait for suspicious activity which might include vehicles with faulty registration plates, tinted glass, pickup trucks which are lower in the rear than the front (indicating heavy load) and with their use of binoclars, they can pretty much tell the shade of the driver and occupants. occasionally, the state police will set up check points randomly, and border agents wil assist in stopping and checking vehicles and occupants.

I like vinagaroon's attitude.

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

Geez Jim, You gotta leave your weed at home.

Seriously though, I know they're doing a job and that's okay but just because someone is a pasty white boy or a freckle faced woman doesn't mean they are US citizens. I could have been from Russia for all they cared and the poster that had Army Wife on her car could be using that as a way to get through(Only an example)
They trust us whities because we're white and distrust anyone that looks Mexican or maybe has a good tan. They should treat people equally.

'Army Mom', and I agree with you 100%. The rules should be the same for everyone, however the fact remains that all of these agencies (Border Patrol, TSA, NYPD...) racial, and in some cases, gender profiling.
I know when I travel with my younger son, chances are pretty good that he will be more closely scrutinized than I am - he looks vaguely Middle Eastern or Latin American, despite having neither in his/our heritage.
Sadly, this is the world we live in.

[Vinegaroon]

Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom

If you have a complaint you can ask to speak to the supervisor and they will get you a form to fill out and all forms are investigated. I am the wife of a Border Patrol agent, when I go through a checkpoint without my husband I always get questioned. When my husband and I go throught a checkpoint where he is not known he gets questioned. They are simply following procedure that is in place at this time. How long does it take for them to question you? Have you ever been secondaried?

If they are following a procedure that tells them to ask questions beyond citizenship, unless they have a suspicion a crime is being committed, they are following an illegal procedure in my opinion.

"further detention of an individual beyond the scope of a routine checkpoint stop must be based upon reasonable suspicion, consent, or probable cause." United States v. Massie, 65 F.3d 843, 848 (10th Cir. 1995) (emphasis added); see also State v. Estrada, 111 N.M. 798, 799, 810 P.2d 817, 818 ("At motor vehicle checkpoints, travelers are constitutionally subject only to brief questioning and limited visual inspection of their vehicles. More extensive detention must be based on some degree of individualized suspicion or consent."). Additionally, New Mexico cases have agreed that the permissible scope of an initial routine inquiry includes "questions regarding citizenship of the vehicle's occupants or a suspicion of criminal activity." Estrada, 111 N.M. at 799, 810 P.2d at 818 (emphasis added). New Mexico cases even purport to distinguish between diversion to secondary for the purpose of completing the routine inquiry and diversion to secondary after the routine questioning and investigation has been completed. See id. (distinguishing federal cases that required less than reasonable suspicion because "referral to a secondary area [in those cases occurred] only after suspicions were raised by circumstances revealed during the initial questioning").

State v. Cardenas-Alvarez, 130 N.M. 386 (2001)

Edjamacation is a good thing.

[Vinegaroon]

Originally Posted by karmathecat

The questions that they are asking are no different than those asked by immigration at any US airport when arriving on an international flight.

It is different. When you enter an immigration point on a border, or arrive on a flight, you are entering another country, and that country has every right to ask you whatever questions it wants to ask you. When you drive through a border checkpoint, you are already in your country. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[ajzjmsmom]

Answer a few questions and be on your way, if you think you were treated unfairly, all checkpoints have a form for you to fill out, request to speak to a supervisor if you are unsatisfied, if you are still dissatisfied than ask to speak to someone further up the chain of command. Why be obnoxious about their questions? It's not like they are asking personal questions. Sorry, where are you coming from, where do you live and where are you going aren't personal questions.

[mike0421]

Here's an experience documented by someone driving north on I-25 between Radium Springs and Upham. For your viewing pleasure:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks

Evidently, after doing some homework on this guy, he is pastor in Tempe who has done this at other border checkpoints. In one such similar stop in AZ at the border, however, he was physically beaten for refusing to answer questions. He regards himself as a strict constitutionalist, and sees such actions as a violation of the 4th and 5th amendments.

[Vinegaroon]

Originally Posted by ajzjmsmom

Answer a few questions and be on your way, if you think you were treated unfairly, all checkpoints have a form for you to fill out, request to speak to a supervisor if you are unsatisfied, if you are still dissatisfied than ask to speak to someone further up the chain of command. Why be obnoxious about their questions? It's not like they are asking personal questions. Sorry, where are you coming from, where do you live and where are you going aren't personal questions.

I think they are being obnoxious by asking me where I am coming from, where I live and where I am going. Just because you don't care about your freedom does not mean I do not care about mine. Trotting out the argument that I should not mind the questions if I am not doing anything wrong is lame. I mind the questions not because I am doing anything wrong, but because I am a free American, and I am free to travel where I want without the government knowing about it. It's the principle of the thing.

Liberty cannot be guaranteed by law. Nor by any thing else except the resolution of free citizens to defend their liberties.

-Edward Abbey

[ajzjmsmom]

Originally Posted by Vinegaroon

I think they are being obnoxious by asking me where I am coming from, where I live and where I am going. Just because you don't care about your freedom does not mean I do not care about mine. Trotting out the argument that I should not mind the questions if I am not doing anything wrong is lame. I mind the questions not because I am doing anything wrong, but because I am a free American, and I am free to travel where I want without the government knowing about it. It's the principle of the thing.

Liberty cannot be guaranteed by law. Nor by any thing else except the resolution of free citizens to defend their liberties.

-Edward Abbey

Don't assume anything about me and how I feel about freedoms I may or may not have.