N California Cold vs S NM cold. (Silver City, Ruidoso: 2009, middle school)

[rruff]

Originally Posted by jaxart

I think that is an excellent comparison. Ashland has its world famous annual Shakespeare Festival and Santa Fe has its world famous outdoor opera. Other things being equal - I suspect cost of living is not that much different between the two.

I haven't lived in Santa Fe but have visited many times... researching it as a place to live, and after I moved here... and I frankly didn't like it at all. I would describe it as mix of ostentatious wealth and poverty, with a patina of new age spirituality and liberal progressiveness, that seemed more decadent than genuine. There is a lot of anger evident on the roads and in the public places. Plenty of gangs and crime and graffiti. Trash everywhere I went in the forest. Traffic is horrible.

Is that overly harsh? Probably... but that has been my impression.

Of course it is a much larger town than Ashland. When I lived in Ashland 11 years ago there were less than 20k people. But it was the sort of place that just made me happy (always) to wander around in. I lived between downtown and the college and could walk anywhere easily... never needed to get in my car. There was a tremendous amount of interesting things going on for a town that size, and a lot of diversity.

[Cali-girl]

Originally Posted by jaxart

while the ski area in Cloudcroft has been totally shutdown for some years now due to lack of consistent snow, Ruidoso's "Ski Apache" has been open every single year and for MOST of the ski season - not just a week! In recent years Ski Apache has invested heavily in snow making equipment that keeps the lower 1/3 of the mountain skiable even though snowfall has been lacking in some years due to intermittent drought conditions. Wet winters are interspersed with dry ones - last year being an unusually dry one. But even last year the ski area operated from sometime in mid December to late March, if memory serves, mostly on man-made snow.

It would have been more appropriate to direct your comment to Cathy4017 since she made a claim that there hasn't been snow in Ruidoso for skiing "worth a damn."

I made adjustments to my original comment based upon her views only to get yours; I get it, "good enough never is" apparently....

~Cali-girl

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by rruff

I haven't lived in Santa Fe but have visited many times... researching it as a place to live, and after I moved here... and I frankly didn't like it at all. I would describe it as mix of ostentatious wealth and poverty, with a patina of new age spirituality and liberal progressiveness, that seemed more decadent than genuine. There is a lot of anger evident on the roads and in the public places. Plenty of gangs and crime and graffiti. Trash everywhere I went in the forest. Traffic is horrible.

Is that overly harsh? Probably... but that has been my impression.

Of course it is a much larger town than Ashland. When I lived in Ashland 11 years ago there were less than 20k people. But it was the sort of place that just made me happy (always) to wander around in. I lived between downtown and the college and could walk anywhere easily... never needed to get in my car. There was a tremendous amount of interesting things going on for a town that size, and a lot of diversity.

I won't comment on the SF part of this thread, but I will say this. A LOT has changed in Ashland in 11 years. It is much closer to the Santa Fe description than the bucolic version. Crime is still low, and folks are not quite so costumed up as Santa Fe, but the Californian housing bubble really changed it to a wealthy ghetto of the SF Bay Area. Folks driving around in Volvos and Jaguars, $500k homes, but few well-paying jobs. All the money was imported....

Back to the climate..

I just checked the Western Regional Climate Center Archives..

Cloudcroft is at 8700' with a high of 41 degrees in January, lows in the teens. 27 inches of precip,with most in summer, and 77 precipitation days through the year, and 83" of snow, 0 days over 90 F, 179 frost days, 1.5 days below zero/year.

Ruidoso is at 6700' with a high of 49 in January, 22" of precip, falling on 84 days, with a snowfall of 38", 5 days over 90 F, 174 frost days, and 2 days below zero/year.

Ashland is at 1800' elevation with a high of 46 in January, 19.8" of precip, falling on 105 days, with 11" of snow, 31 days over 90 F, 96 frost days, and 0.1 days below zero/year.

Sounds like I would love Cloudcroft or Ruidoso, but White Mountain's wife might not. Pretty snowy places, particularly cloudcroft, likely with black ice and the lot for at least a few weeks. Also, they are considerably colder in absolute terms in winter than Ashland. I still suspect the winters there would be bracing and gorgeous, not oppressive, but let's face it, they are not Las Cruces...but it would be easy enough to escape the cold in the surrounding deserts..

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by Cali-girl

It would have been more appropriate to direct your comment to Cathy4017 since she made a claim that there hasn't been snow in Ruidoso for skiing "worth a damn."

I made adjustments to my original comment based upon her views only to get yours; I get it, "good enough never is" apparently....

~Cali-girl

You left out the last part of the quote. This is what I said:

"Neither area has been worth a damn as far as skiing goes for the past two seasons."

Big difference. Sorry you took offense at what I said. I meant none. But the elevations in Cloudcroft and Ruidoso are not about the same. To my way of thinking, 1800+ feet difference is substantial.

Ski Apache can be great--when there is snow. Manmade snow is better than nothing, but when it gets warm enough during the day to melt--and then freeze that night, conditions the next morning aren't so great unless they have run their snowmaking all night long.

There is no comparison to what Ski Apache was in the 1970s, 80s and up to about 1990 snowwise...and as it is most years nowadays. They had one of their best seasons in years THREE seasons ago. The last two have been very poor, manmade snow notwithstanding.

[jaxart]

Originally Posted by Cali-girl

Sacramento is the State Capital, not SF.

~Cali-girl

HUH???? This thead has been comparing Santa Fe (SF), NM to Ashland, OR. There has been no mention of SF (San Francisco), CA to my knowledge????

Santa Fe is the capital of New Mexico - Salem is the capital of Oregon (not Ashland) and that makes a difference (IMO) when trying to make comparisons between those two cities!

It would have been more appropriate to direct your comment to Cathy4017 since she made a claim that there hasn't been snow in Ruidoso for skiing "worth a damn."

I agree with Cathy's comment - the skiing hasn't been up to par the past couple of years. What I took exception to was YOUR comment:

the ski "season" has been very short like about 1 week long.

The ski season has never been "1 week long" and I've been skiing here since the ski area first opened in the 1960s.

[Cali-girl]

Originally Posted by jaxart

HUH???? This thead has been comparing Santa Fe (SF), NM to Ashland, OR. There has been no mention of SF (San Francisco), CA to my knowledge????

Santa Fe is the capital of New Mexico - Salem is the capital of Oregon (not Ashland) and that makes a difference (IMO) when trying to make comparisons between those two cities!





I agree with Cathy's comment - the skiing hasn't been up to par the past couple of years. What I took exception to was YOUR comment:


The ski season has never been "1 week long" and I've been skiing here since the ski area first opened in the 1960s.

I am terribly sorry for my misunderstanding regarding SF and S.F. Your are completely correct since you were referring to Santa Fe and not to San Francisco, my apologies.
I also apologize for lacking complete knowledge of the snow levels and skiing conditions in Ruidoso.

I am very sorry that all the positive things I had to post about Cloudcroft and Ruidoso that may be incorrect since, as I posted, I've visted these two towns "many, many times" however I am not a resident of these towns and so lack knowledge that only a local can contribute.

Certainly, as a resident of Ruidoso, you would naturally have all of the information necessary to inform someone else.

My only goal in posting was to compare the 2 areas in NM to those similar in CA where my family has been living for 5 generations, so I would like to think I know something about my State of CA that would enable them to compare areas to those in NM.

Again, I am very very sorry that I apparently crossed odds with your high level of knowledge regarding Ruidoso and Cloudcroft and I hope that you and Cathy4017 will find it possible to forgive me for being unable to give the OP snowlevels, ski conditions, and other information regarding these two fine towns.

I did the best I could and offered a caveat in my original post on this thread. I'm sorry that I fell short.

~Cali-girl

[Fiddlehead]

As I recall, the thread was comparing the climates of Cloudcroft/Ruidoso to Ashland as the OP was considering the different places for a move. A good comparison, and interesting, in that folks might really like one or the other depending upon how much they like snow, sun, moist marine air, thunderstorms, ice free roads,etc. There are both nice temperate areas, but different.

The Santa Fe thing came in because another poster was singing the praises of Ashland in days gone by, while dumping on Santa Fe. I was just pointing out that Ashland is now in the ranks with, if not quite Santa Fe, Aspen, Telluride, Boulder, Park City, Carmel,Nevada City, Bend and a bunch of other desirable places that have been invaded by the exurban rich. That is not to say that all those areas do not have very appealing features, the rich are not dumb, but when they take over, affordable digs, and something of the original flavor, is lost.

[White Mountain]

Thanks fiddlehead for your research!
I agree with you; Cloudcroft/Ruidoso sounds like my kind of place!
Interesting too that I saw this thread http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-m...have-best.html and saw this "I agree with Catman and also would include the Ruidoso/Capitan general area for a mild 4 season climate.

The problem is that my wife lived for a few years in Toronto where it is bitter cold and she had to dig her way to work and back home again as the snow was so deep and crazy, so those are the thoughts that go through her head, and I don't blame her, however, I think she would be pleasantly surprised that even where there is snow she won't see such conditions in Cloudcroft/Ruidoso areas"..

I agree as well that places such as Ashland has been so populated with out of state money that to find it a reasonable place to live when it comes to housing etc, is nearly impossible.

If I am not mistaken it would seem to me that taking a full year into consideration Ruidoso/Cloudcroft would have a milder weather than Ashland, if a full year was taken into account....As also the rain and drizzle in Ashland does seem to last forever at times....

Thank you all for awesome input!!!!!
White Mountain!

[rruff]

Originally Posted by White Mountain

The problem is that my wife lived for a few years in Toronto where it is bitter cold and she had to dig her way to work and back home again as the snow was so deep and crazy, so those are the thoughts that go through her head, and I don't blame her, however, I think she would be pleasantly surprised that even where there is snow she won't see such conditions in Cloudcroft/Ruidoso areas"..

Toronto is milder than most of Canada, but it is still ~20F colder than Ruidoso in Jan, and not nearly as sunny. I don't think she'll be having flashbacks. Just get her hooked on skiing and she'll be begging for snow!

Regarding Ashland and californication in general, the rich semi-retired folks from the Bay area who originally invaded actually helped make it great in the ways I described, but there is probably a similar trend that occurs in all these places... an initial "boom" when the most adventurous, outdoor loving, and interesting people move to a small town and actually improve it... followed by overcrowding, traffic jams, and the next wave of people who move there because it's "trendy".

[jaxart]

Originally Posted by White Mountain

If I am not mistaken it would seem to me that taking a full year into consideration Ruidoso/Cloudcroft would have a milder weather than Ashland, if a full year was taken into account....As also the rain and drizzle in Ashland does seem to last forever at times....

Those of us who live in Lincoln County (Ruidoso/Alto/Capitan area) find ourselves frequently praying for a few days of slow continuous rain! OR ANY PRECIPITATION IN ANY FORM! And the funny thing is, when it does rain for a few days, as infrequently as that happens, about the second day you hear locals complaining about "all the rain" - never satisfied, it seems! Probably because steady rain means a lull in normal outdoor activities that so many indulge in - golfing, hiking, walking etc. To say nothing of having to deal with wet/muddy pets coming in from outdoors.

Once popular were bumper stickers that read, "Think Snow" in the winter months. Skiers (and school kids) pray for snow! In the past few years, the 7,000 ft. elevations have often received rain rather than snow as temperatures in winter months seem to have moderated (global warming?). Of course this translates to quicker thawing if and when it does turn to snow.