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Old 12-12-2011, 07:12 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,236 posts, read 5,605,742 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
There's something called the Braes paradox in traffic engineering which is the phenomenon of traffic in an area actually getting better after a major street is removed. Empirical studies suggest it has about a 50% chance of occuring.
No, Braess' paradox says that adding lanes to a highway may make traffic worse because the route that drivers take depend on the condition of he routes available.

People keep trying to compare this to places where highways have been torn down, but there are no successful examples of major interstates through the core of a city being torn down. Only bypasses and routes that were already underutilized have been successfully torn down and turned into landscapes avenues. If it was really that simple why would a city like Boston spend billions to bury an expressway nearly identical to this stretch of I-10 when they could have just made it into a pedestrian friendly, landscaped, urban thoroughfare?

Now using Braess' Paradox, how many desirable alternates are there between Elysian Fields and Calliope?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:28 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,236 posts, read 5,605,742 times
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Default Ay

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
1.) I couldn't imagine all the other highways being widened, and never the surface streets, many are wide enough as it is. Rebuilding the bridge? Why?
2.) ?
3.) If it's built to not be a wide boulevard, it could be pedestrian friendly. Canal is wide with a wide neutral ground but still pedestrian friendly.
4.) With you there. It would take years of dedicated projects and attention to make Claiborne alive again.
1. They would more than likely need to be widened because traffic would redistribute itself. Rebuild the bridge because it's old and almost at the end of its lifespan and it's an elevated evacuation route in a flood prone area.

2. That's the major truck route from the port to places eastward and it's the only highway connecting the Westbank to the East. The interchange with the Pontchartain expressway is usually congested thought he day and the truck traffic gets ridiculously heavy in the late morning and early evening.

3. Canal doesn't handle the same type of traffic as I-10, but I see your point.

4. All it takes is investment. There's no guarantee that tearing it down will make people want to invest in it unless there's some deal already under the table.

I'm not 100% against it coming down, but the plan as presented is BS. They're basically selling "urbanists" and people who don't know any better a dream.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:39 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,191 posts, read 1,839,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
No, Braess' paradox says that adding lanes to a highway may make traffic worse because the route that drivers take depend on the condition of he routes available.

People keep trying to compare this to places where highways have been torn down, but there are no successful examples of major interstates through the core of a city being torn down. Only bypasses and routes that were already underutilized have been successfully torn down and turned into landscapes avenues. If it was really that simple why would a city like Boston spend billions to bury an expressway nearly identical to this stretch of I-10 when they could have just made it into a pedestrian friendly, landscaped, urban thoroughfare?

Now using Braess' Paradox, how many desirable alternates are there between Elysian Fields and Calliope?
Okay, then it's a corollary to Braess' paradox. It's the same idea. You really seem to try to cut down every argument into little pieces while ignoring the whole.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:43 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,236 posts, read 5,605,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
Okay, then it's a corollary to Braess' paradox. It's the same idea. You really seem to try to cut down every argument into little pieces while ignoring the whole.
What did I ignore? If anything I split it to cover every corner that I can.
Yeah, the paradox can be applied, but that isn't what it paradox says l nor is it guaranteed in this situation.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
10,627 posts, read 8,063,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
1. They would more than likely need to be widened because traffic would redistribute itself. Rebuild the bridge because it's old and almost at the end of its lifespan and it's an elevated evacuation route in a flood prone area.

2. That's the major truck route from the port to places eastward and it's the only highway connecting the Westbank to the East. The interchange with the Pontchartain expressway is usually congested thought he day and the truck traffic gets ridiculously heavy in the late morning and early evening.

3. Canal doesn't handle the same type of traffic as I-10, but I see your point.

4. All it takes is investment. There's no guarantee that tearing it down will make people want to invest in it unless there's some deal already under the table.

I'm not 100% against it coming down, but the plan as presented is BS. They're basically selling "urbanists" and people who don't know any better a dream.
1.) The evacuation route is a good point.

2.) This was my idea a while back. The situation is complicated with New Orleans. Edit: had an image here but basically extend I-510 to where the Expressway turns westward near Algiers.

3.) It doesn't but during games it's pretty busy with street traffic, as is Poydras and people are still walking.

4.) If the street's purpose will be to maintain the same level of traffic flow, they might as well keep it or rebuild it. If they believe they can somehow relieve the traffic without widening other streets and increase pedestrian activity, blow the damn thing up.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,191 posts, read 1,839,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
What did I ignore? If anything I split it to cover every corner that I can.
Yeah, the paradox can be applied, but that isn't what it paradox says l nor is it guaranteed in this situation.
I acknowledged in my first post that it was a crapshoot, so what the hell are we quibbling about?

Last edited by Neworleansisprettygood; 12-12-2011 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:35 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,191 posts, read 1,839,809 times
Reputation: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
1.) The evacuation route is a good point.

2.) This was my idea a while back. The situation is complicated with New Orleans. Edit: had an image here but basically extend I-510 to where the Expressway turns westward near Algiers.

3.) It doesn't but during games it's pretty busy with street traffic, as is Poydras and people are still walking.

4.) If the street's purpose will be to maintain the same level of traffic flow, they might as well keep it or rebuild it. If they believe they can somehow relieve the traffic without widening other streets and increase pedestrian activity, blow the damn thing up.
I agree with most of this. The loop with 510 and 310 was an early proposal, to be named 410 after the never-completed Riverfront Expressway no longer needed that designation.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
2,191 posts, read 1,839,809 times
Reputation: 1233
Nevermind. **** it. WB, you obviously have enough time on your hands to be able to half-ass refute any argument that comes up here. I'm done with this thread.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,236 posts, read 5,605,742 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
Nevermind. **** it. WB, you obviously have enough time on your hands to be able to half-ass refute any argument that comes up here. I'm done with this thread.
Exactly
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
10,627 posts, read 8,063,777 times
Reputation: 4884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
I agree with most of this. The loop with 510 and 310 was an early proposal, to be named 410 after the never-completed Riverfront Expressway no longer needed that designation.
Well all of I-510 could be designated I-49 if it was ever extended, leaving the CCC as it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neworleansisprettygood View Post
Nevermind. **** it. WB, you obviously have enough time on your hands to be able to half-ass refute any argument that comes up here. I'm done with this thread.
He is extremely thorough in all arguments I've seen him participate in.
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