U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-21-2010, 08:40 PM
 
6,860 posts, read 11,278,445 times
Reputation: 3943
The few issues that popped into my head first are the what-ifs:

What if people are paid to move to other states but don't find work there and end up destitute in another state? Is it then that state's responsibility to pay for the benefits and subsidized housing that they used to have in NY and that NY used to pay for?

What if it doesn't work out for these people and they want to move back? Their apartments would already be gone. I would think it would be pretty hard to convince people to move to a place where they have an uncertain future and no longer have a safety net.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-21-2010, 08:53 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 4,827,425 times
Reputation: 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
The few issues that popped into my head first are the what-ifs:

What if people are paid to move to other states but don't find work there and end up destitute in another state? Is it then that state's responsibility to pay for the benefits and subsidized housing that they used to have in NY and that NY used to pay for?

What if it doesn't work out for these people and they want to move back? Their apartments would already be gone. I would think it would be pretty hard to convince people to move to a place where they have an uncertain future and no longer have a safety net.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Someone is actually using something called "COMMON SENSE" and for that I thank you
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2010, 08:57 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,169 posts, read 4,827,425 times
Reputation: 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
White people wont do these jobs so illegal mexicans are the only ones to do it. Bull. People are welfare need to be kicked off and they can do these jobs.

and....than do what? There is a reason that american citizens don't want those jobs in the first place. Sooo if whites won't do them why should other americans be subject to? If that is the case that would create a caste system such as the one that was (is) in India.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2010, 09:52 PM
 
10,512 posts, read 8,208,122 times
Reputation: 3775
Some reading material:

This history of one area and its housing:
http://www.chpcny.org/pubs/Coney%20Island.pdf (broken link)

NYCHA housing process:
Applying for Public Housing - New York City Housing Authority
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2010, 10:22 PM
 
10,512 posts, read 8,208,122 times
Reputation: 3775
Quote:
some people are destined to be poor and others be rich
We are not destined to do anything. Everyone makes a choice in their next step. The issue is what choices are available at that time and what choices we make to try to get to the one we want.

Quote:
imagine how few job prospects there would be if everybody got their BA
If we bought into education as much as we do consumerism, we would have more jobs here (the US). Many jobs gets outsourced due to lack of quantity of people to do certain jobs or lack of educated individuals. Look at H1B jobs, many of them are six figure positions.

The state/govt puts out grants every year and their only requirement is that they do 12 credits per semester and hold a minimum 2.0 GPA. We need to get a better quality of education and not be on the top 10 party school list.

The United States does a good job enrolling teenagers in college, but only half of students who enroll end up with a bachelorís degree. Among rich countries, only Italy is worse.

And more reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/bu...leonhardt.html
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/goldin/files/GoldinKatz_Brookings.pdf (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-21-2010, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Springfield Gardens, NY
1,122 posts, read 1,663,939 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
There are people who post on this board about moving to New York to live in a project. I don't know why, but people do it all the time. Living in the projects doesn't have the stigma that it does in other places. I think it's because the city is so expensive that even comparatively affluent people get a quasi-subsidy in rent stabilization. Also, I think the rich feel guilty because housing is so expensive that they support projects more than they do elsewhere.

If you're in a project in a place like Cleveland, you're really, really trapped in poverty. Housing cost are low so if you make $10 an hour you can actually afford an apartment. That's not the case in New York.
Excellent post tpk. It's really a disturbing trend I'm seeing on the forum here lately. Remember the poster from upstate that made like 4 threads about transferring to NYC with a Section 8 voucher even when she was told that NYC no longer takes Section 8?? I will never understand the desperation that a lot these folks have. NEWS FLASH: NEW YORK CITY IS NOT A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE IF YOU'RE POOR!! Not that living anywhere is great when you're poor, but especially not the most expensive city in the country . You gotta be practical with your choices. If you live in rural Oklahoma and can't rub two nickles together, it would probably be a better idea to move to the nearest big city (ie OKC or Dallas) than think about trekking halfway across the country to live in a housing PJ in NYC...but I digress -- sort of.

To answer the OP's question. I think a lot of it has to do with complacency. I share your opinion that it is not impossible for a person living in the PJ's to relocate to an area where you can actually make a decent living....but there are too many people in the PJ's who would rather take the path of least resistance...whether it's moving to a cheaper area or trying to move up the income ladder and better themselves so that they can leave the PJ's.

Now I do want to say though that economics obviously plays a role. A person living in the PJ's, more than likely, are part of the working poor and scraping up money for a bus ticket to a cheaper city along with living accommodations may be a huge undertaking financially...but like your reference to the Mexican immigrants shows, tons of people pull it off having much, much less. Unfortunately w/ the economy in the toilet, we're going to see much more of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2010, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Pkwy (da Bronx)
966 posts, read 1,350,609 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henna View Post
The few issues that popped into my head first are the what-ifs:

What if people are paid to move to other states but don't find work there and end up destitute in another state? Is it then that state's responsibility to pay for the benefits and subsidized housing that they used to have in NY and that NY used to pay for?

What if it doesn't work out for these people and they want to move back? Their apartments would already be gone. I would think it would be pretty hard to convince people to move to a place where they have an uncertain future and no longer have a safety net.
Well put, Henna. This is my point almost exactly. Someone who is poor or destitute doesn't have the luxury of moving back to NYC--as I will be doing soon--if their midwestern dream turns out to be a sham. I'm not saying that NYC is best for everyone. Some will make it; some will not. But to say that they would be better off elsewhere is equally problematic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2010, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Pkwy (da Bronx)
966 posts, read 1,350,609 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
We are not destined to do anything. Everyone makes a choice in their next step. The issue is what choices are available at that time and what choices we make to try to get to the one we want.



If we bought into education as much as we do consumerism, we would have more jobs here (the US). Many jobs gets outsourced due to lack of quantity of people to do certain jobs or lack of educated individuals. Look at H1B jobs, many of them are six figure positions.

The state/govt puts out grants every year and their only requirement is that they do 12 credits per semester and hold a minimum 2.0 GPA. We need to get a better quality of education and not be on the top 10 party school list.

The United States does a good job enrolling teenagers in college, but only half of students who enroll end up with a bachelor’s degree. Among rich countries, only Italy is worse.

And more reading:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/bu...leonhardt.html
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/goldin/files/GoldinKatz_Brookings.pdf (broken link)
Yes, yes, yes. This is why I do the work that I do, both in NYC and in Madison. If I truly believed--which I don't--that only certain people are destined for success then what would the point? Education is the key, along with not buying into the social Darwinism that says or predicts that you are destined to be a bottom feeder or service worker the rest of your life. Public education is becoming less and less effective. A college education is a choice but, as you have said, not a great choice for everyone. I teach in both college/university settings as well as the nonprofit sector focusing on the construction trades. People do still have choices. There are other barriers in their way that have nothing to do with equal access to education.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2010, 08:42 AM
 
47 posts, read 118,211 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
Isnt this better then not having them work at all and having them entirely dependent on the system.
Liberals love keeping people down it keeps them in power. If you are on welfare and section 8 and every government program under the sun arent you going to vote for the people who keep giving you free money which you dont have to earn. The problem with the projects is that people dont pay to live their and when you are given anything for free you take it for granted.
First and foremost people in the projects pay rent!!! Always have, always will. The problem is that the rents don't keep up with the cost of maintaining the buildings. NYCHA can only charge up to 30% of a resident's income due to federal guidelines.

People in housing projects work. People on Section 8 work. If you are on welfare benefits, their is a work requirement and a time limit on when you are eligible for assistance.

The problem in our city (and country for that matter) is that we have a large, low skilled workforce that can't obtain the jobs and incomes that the high-skilled, private sector has available. Because of housing scarcity and the cost of living in this city, they will always need some type of public assistance to live, even if they are working. I was pointing out in my original post that you have political elements who want to end ANY public assistance to poor people and its just not sustainable in this city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2010, 08:51 AM
 
47 posts, read 118,211 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nala8 View Post
Well put, Henna. This is my point almost exactly. Someone who is poor or destitute doesn't have the luxury of moving back to NYC--as I will be doing soon--if their midwestern dream turns out to be a sham. I'm not saying that NYC is best for everyone. Some will make it; some will not. But to say that they would be better off elsewhere is equally problematic.
to your post.

Unfortunately people in NYC can sometimes be inward looking and not realize what's going on in other parts of the country. Our nation's economy is worse than what we've been told. People are coming to NYC because this is one of the areas where jobs still are.

Has anyone noticed all the guys from the south that are now working construction up here? You know them because they have mullets and are as polite as can be. They're here because these men are experienced in construction trades, but can't find work back home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top