A possibly ignorant question... (New York, York: lease, mortgage, attorney)

[mayorofnyc]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

illegal immigrants take these jobs because they have no skills.

And more than likely will be stuck doing those type of jobs for all eternity.

[noladarling]

Topic Reminder: Why don't the people who live in the projects just move?

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by noladarling

Topic Reminder: Why don't the people who live in the projects just move?

it all ties in. education+skills+money = mobility.

albeit, the thread has evolved quite a bit. thanks for being cognizant.

[SobroGuy]

7th..you probably forgot the most important ingredient in that formula: DESIRE/WILL/MOTIVATION....you can have all the education, skills and money but if you have zero motivation to do anything..or want to make a change...nothing will happen and you will simply sit/whine/complain..which is exactly what we see.

Regarding your comment that "damn right you are entitled to work in the field you worked hard to get a degree in"....with that attitude it is no wonder people fail. In the real world you roll with the punches..you lose your job as a chemist and you can't find another, you drive a cab to make do until you can figure something else out...or you can sit on unemployment/complain/whine and do nothing until you find something you "deserve" because you are "entitled."

And I can vouch for the statement about contractors/business owners not being able to find americans to do work. I do lots of work on my building (major and minor renovations), and I cannot find one decent, dependable worker in all of my neighborhood (Americans)...they would rather hang out, sleep late, and "chill." Instead I go to the Mexicans who are always on time, eager to take any job, and do the work well...and I pay them the same amount I would pay anyone else!

I understand that jobs are being outsourced, both high and low level, and that there is downward pressure on wages...how do I know this? Because I work and am feeling the downward pressure everyday! But do I choose not to bother anymore and give up? Complain? No..you need a plan B, and C, and E,F,G if necessary. Life isn't easy..it is a struggle, and those that receive handouts are more likely to simply continue on handouts rather than move towards independence because life is "too hard" and "they can't afford it." What is the reality? They want their cake and eat it too...are accustomed to a certain lifestyle...and don't want/need to make the sacrifices necessary b/c nobody is making them.

How do I know this? I live in the South Bronx..and know the reality. It is not necessarily that anyone is a bad person, but there is no incentive or motivation to do anything. And had welfare reform not occured in NYC, we would still be seeing 50%+ welfare rates in large swaths of NYC...it was not until there was incentive to change that people got off welfare. The projects are no different...

[noladarling]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

it all ties in. education+skills+money = mobility.

albeit, the thread has evolved quite a bit. thanks for being cognizant.

I agree with bolded...I just don't see where illegals come in. It's sad to me that some people commenting here can see the picture beyond "you just need plain ole motivation." Perhaps it comes from their privileged point of view.

I've never lived in the projects but because of my background I have family members that have and that do. Most of them just can't see a life for themselves outside of that situation. Because of their lack of education, skills and money they are less likely to be exposed to those who are mobile and have bigger dreams. They also suffer with self esteem issues...another topic.

Often my parents have offered their home so that our disadvantaged family members could go to better schools, get exposure and get on their feet. (For lack of a better comparison)The scenario was often like the "Bevery Hills Hillbillys." They had to learn EVERYTHING...down to how to dress, simple manners, etc. on top of their jobs and school.

My cousin moved in with my family from the projects when I was in highschool. I had to show her the ropes. She tells me even now how she learned so much and she has even gone to community college.

So anyway, to wrap it up...We are talking about lifestyle changes...not simply...JUST MOVE.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by noladarling

I agree with bolded...I just don't see where illegals come in. It's sad to me that some people commenting here can see the picture beyond "you just need plain ole motivation." Perhaps it comes from their privileged point of view.

I've never lived in the projects but because of my background I have family members that have and that do. Most of them just can't see a life for themselves outside of that situation. Because of their lack of education, skills and money they are less likely to be exposed to those who are mobile and have bigger dreams. They also suffer with self esteem issues...another topic.

Often my parents have offered their home so that our disadvantaged family members could go to better schools, get exposure and get on their feet. (For lack of a better comparison)The scenario was often like the "Bevery Hills Hillbillys." They had to learn EVERYTHING...down to how to dress, simple manners, etc. on top of their jobs and school.

My cousin moved in with my family from the projects when I was in highschool. I had to show her the ropes. She tells me even now how she learned so much and she has even gone to community college.

So anyway, to wrap it up...We are talking about lifestyle changes...not simply...JUST MOVE.

good point....exposure is a big key...my wife is from the projects so ive seen the lifestyle...when you live there there is absolutely no incentive around you to enhance your lifestyle unless you are taught. of course she doesnt have that mentality otherwise we wouldnt be married but that goes without saying. the point is the mentality to drive and succeed is very rarely self-taught. environment plays a key. and when you have 3 strikes against you from the beginning, chances are that people stay in the same rut. its all human nature, no big deal.

even with the illegal immigrant argument....they come here because in some way they are exposed to american culture and lifestyle, most likely through the media. what are u going to be exposed to in the projects? welfare, ebt cards, pissy elevators, girls walking around wearing next to nothing, and cheap beer. i can write a discertation on how the projects erodes your brain. quite frankly i dont even blame most of them because they have nobody to show them what life is really like.

[SobroGuy]

Interesting that you chose to mention "girls walking around wearing next to nothing" but not the thugs that hold these places hostage, and steal the kids into their thug/drug culture.

I do agree however that when you are not exposed to anyone doing anything..you are likely not to do anything either..which is part of the reason I chose to stay in my community. I have had kids ask me "why are you wearing a suit"...and I answered because I work. If you go to school and do well..you can wear a suit too! Of course I despise wearing a suit but he was happy nonetheless.

Another kid tossed some garbage on the ground, and I picked it up and told her she should throw it in the garbage. She had a look of confusion like I was speaking jibberish...but her friends responded "come on don't be throwing garbage in front of his house, throw it over there"...of course I had to correct them again..."no not there either, it should go in the garbage can here, that way we can keep the place clean." Nobody looked convinced and they ran off...maybe I planted a seed..who knows.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Interesting that you chose to mention "girls walking around wearing next to nothing" but not the thugs that hold these places hostage, and steal the kids into their thug/drug culture.

I do agree however that when you are not exposed to anyone doing anything..you are likely not to do anything either..which is part of the reason I chose to stay in my community. I have had kids ask me "why are you wearing a suit"...and I answered because I work. If you go to school and do well..you can wear a suit too! Of course I despise wearing a suit but he was happy nonetheless.

Another kid tossed some garbage on the ground, and I picked it up and told her she should throw it in the garbage. She had a look of confusion like I was speaking jibberish...but her friends responded "come on don't be throwing garbage in front of his house, throw it over there"...of course I had to correct them again..."no not there either, it should go in the garbage can here, that way we can keep the place clean." Nobody looked convinced and they ran off...maybe I planted a seed..who knows.

how could i forget about gangs/thugs...lol thanks for the back-up.

[Pruzhany]

We have to also remember that not all Projects are the same. There are many that are more racially balanced. There are some cleaner than others. Low wages is not always the issue. A family of three making less than $55k fits the criteria for entrance into these apartments. Most have electricity and heat included in the rent. Many have parking lots, laundry rooms, shopping within walking distance, transit nearby and trash rooms on each floor. Some have their own security and security cameras. And the rent is based on your salary. So most are under $800/month and have many amenities. People wait on 10 year lists to get into these apartments. There are multiple lists that try to maintain racial equality. But not all lists fill their quota allowances. Thus you end up racial inequality.

Each one of these these Projects have boards. But depending on the quality of the people on these boards will translate to the quality of the Project. They all have By-laws, but not all follow them.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by NeilVA

We have to also remember that not all Projects are the same. There are many that are more racially balanced. There are some cleaner than others. Low wages is not always the issue. A family of three making less than $55k fits the criteria for entrance into these apartments. Most have electricity and heat included in the rent. Many have parking lots, laundry rooms, shopping within walking distance, transit nearby and trash rooms on each floor. Some have their own security and security cameras. And the rent is based on your salary. So most are under $800/month and have many amenities. People wait on 10 year lists to get into these apartments. There are multiple lists that try to maintain racial equality. But not all lists fill their quota allowances. Thus you end up racial inequality.

Each one of these these Projects have boards. But depending on the quality of the people on these boards will translate to the quality of the Project. They all have By-laws, but not all follow them.

Do you live in an NYCHA project? I thinkthis information is a little generalized. I do know people that live in NYCHA projects, and your over all information is correct. However NYCHA is in the process of coverting all of their projects to each apt having their own electric meter, and each family will pay their own electricity bills. Some have already been converted.

You also cannot really choose where you would like to live. If an apt is offered to you and you refuse, you can be placed back on the bottom of the list, sometimes this is why the process is so long for some people. They may not want to accept an apt far away from family, which is their support system, especially if they have children, are disabled, or elderly.

Another problem is that their are no "special" projects for the working/middle class residents, so they may be subjected to things that can disturb their downtime drastically.