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Old 07-10-2010, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Bronx
8,460 posts, read 7,634,398 times
Reputation: 3911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe84323 View Post
Wow... call the waambulance. In almost every other city in the NE, people have left because they were afraid for their safety. Their once vibrant neighborhoods are now full of crack dealers and boarded up houses, if the buildings haven't been torn down yet.

On the other hand, you people are complaining that the property values went up too much, and you can no longer afford your once-dirty neighborhoods.

Boo hoo. My birth town is falling apart due to disrepair, and section 8. Yours is better than ever... and you think YOUR city is dying.
Not that the city is dying but the culture of the city is dying in place of a new hipster/yuppie culture. THe gold old days of Italian, Puerto Rican, Irish and Jewish days of NYC is gone. Harlem and Jazz is slowing coming to an end. The only cultural instuutions that survived the death of NYC is Hip hop and Punk Rock.

 
Old 07-10-2010, 09:07 PM
 
Location: W Hartford, CT
1,298 posts, read 1,977,235 times
Reputation: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Ya,New York. Take the 4 train to the end( Woodlawn) and then walk to Katonah Avenue and walk up Katonah Avenue to McLean Avenue.It's known as County Woodlawn or the 33rd County of Ireland.

Then go and hang around Arthur Avenue and 187th st ( Bronx's Little Italy)
As someone who's been to these areas, I agree. I especially love Katnoah Ave - there's something special about that area that can't be mass-marketed or duplicated. It's places like these that keep cities unique. These areas haven't become homogonized - yet!

IMHO, Manhattan is still a truly unique place, but when neighborhoods become gentrified beyond recognition - where there's so sense of ethnic identity and chain stores replace the family businesses - this is when a city begins to lose its soul, and sadly this has happened alot in Manhattan. I remember Manhattan in the early '90s - before Disney puked all over Times Square and steam was rising from the manholes nonstop like in Taxi Driver. It's hard to argue that cleaning up bad areas is the right thing to do, but lately it seems the real benefactors to all of this are the building contractors, not the people (who are often displaced by this.) I'm not sure I'd want to go back to the dark days of the '70s when the city looked like a coastal Detroit, but to say that what's happened in the past decade is progress isn't fully accurate, either.

From my experiences, it seems like it's the outer boros that are the real ethnic enclaves. I don't think of yuppies everywhere when I think of most neighborhoods in Queens - and especially the Bronx. I sense what people are looking for are those ethnic areas that can have a sense of diversity while still being middle class. That's hard to find these days, not because they're decreasing but because of demographic shifts: The Bronx used to be considered "the Jewish Boro" until the 1950s. Since then there's been a huge influx of Latinos living there. (I realize much of the Bronx isn't exactly middle class anymore, but this has less to do with the ethnic groups who moved there and more to do with poor city planning that killed the quality of life there.) A friend of mine who's Japanese and now living in Forest Hills told me that his neighborhood was notorious for discriminating against non-whites for years until the 70s. Now it's a real mixed bag even though it's considered a wealthy area. So neighborhoods change. It happens everywhere - in major cities, smaller ones, even the inner suburbs of cities.

Another reason I think these ethnic areas have faded is because alot of the off-the-boaters and first generation folks, who gave their neighborhoods this sense of identity, have either passed away or moved away. It happens. And with each passing generation your roots seem further away. Alot of people view holding on to their ethnic roots as living in the past. It isn't. There's nothing wrong with moving ahead while still looking back once in a while. If people do that, they won't completely lose their sense of where they came from. But I think that's what happens in the 'burbs too often - there's little or no independent thought.

Just me $0.02. Hopefully this discussion can continue without any more insults. Good night everyone.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 02:15 AM
 
Location: Raised in queens/native NY'er
27 posts, read 61,306 times
Reputation: 14
Its just too expensive.
Im not paying a $1000 for a studio apt.
how do families afford to live here? I currently live in the projects with my family so its not an issue but a middle class family cannot live here anymore.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 04:32 AM
 
3,371 posts, read 2,597,284 times
Reputation: 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
I love where NY is now due to gentrification. It has made it a much CLEANER and SAFER place to live. Back in the so-called "good old days" as th OP mentions, NY was a more liberal city, chaos everywhere, pretty much a zoo, hence the dirty, undesirable look and feel. I love that the NY way of life or vibe of NY has moved closer to the conservative tip. The 60's, 70's, 80's and early 90's where the worst decades for NY. Why? Because NY was a much more LIBERAL city back then with it's policies. It was like the wild wild west where anything goes. There were less restrictions so people did as they pleased, hence the undesirablity.
You know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.

Statistically speaking, the city was FAR more likely to vote for Republicans during those years than Democrats. Don't believe me? Look up the voting history of the five boroughs. Queens and Brooklyn used to be swing counties and Staten Island used to vote Republican pretty solidly during those years. So, stop it with this "It was all the liberals' fault" nonsense.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 06:39 AM
 
3,371 posts, read 2,597,284 times
Reputation: 1677
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrusjul View Post
And how do you know that will happened?? The recent gentrification is something new in the city. There hasn't been any studies that suggest that when they are gone, the neighborhood will become undesirable or that crime will rise. Maybe the middle class can actually come in and buy at the right price. If they are smart enough to invest. Actually I think if it weren't for the gentrifiers, places like williamsburg, Harlem, Long Island City and Astoria will probably be in decline (with rising crime) like it was happening in the 70's and the 80's.
Well, considering there are such things as property booms (and guess what tends to follow after a boom) and that so many of the people moving to New York are a bit "trend focused" that it is not impossible (it might even be quite likely) that New York not experience a second period of decline.

Keep in mind that many ghetto areas of the Bronx used to be middle-class, Camden and Trenton in New Jersey used to bustling industrial centers, Compton was once overwhelmingly white and middle-class, and so on. The Lower East Side changes reputation every few decades.

It happens.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 08:53 AM
 
226 posts, read 289,180 times
Reputation: 416
As an outsider who visits the city, I can only partially understand what people are talking about.

I get the point being made about the "yuppiefication" of the city (which is happening all over the country) and the loss of alot of culture, but at the same time maybe people have been living in NYC for so long that they forget to look around.

Yes, there are tons of starbucks in mid-town Manhattan (which is a good thing when I really need to use the restroom), and yes there are trendy and expensive neighborhoods that were once populated by middle class people.

BUT, as someone who visits NYC and hasn't actually lived there, I still see incredible amounts of culture in the city. Maybe you don't have many of the old multi-generational ethnic neighborhoods yet, but have you ever walked down Lexington between around 35th and 25th street? It's block after block of FAMILY-owned authentic Indian cuisine. I'm talking potentially hundreds of restaurants. And while little Italy might be shrinking, it is being engulfed by chinatown, where on certain streets I feel like I am literally in an asian country. Walk around western Harlem and you will see afro-carribean markets and carribean immigrants selling jamaican beef patties.

And I realize that NYC has cleaned up a lot but there are still many dirty, run down, and rough places in the city if that is what you are looking for. My sister lived in uptown in the 140s and it was plenty "gritty" for me to have to step over passed out crackheads who snuck in to sleep in the stairwells. Oh and the reason I was taking the stairs was because the elevator seemed to always be broken. And this wasn't in the 1990's, it was a few months ago.

Bottom line: I do not view NYC as strictly a touristy Disney-World. To me it is an exciting and incredibly unique place with more culture concentrated in one area then anywhere else in the world.
 
Old 07-11-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Raised in queens/native NY'er
27 posts, read 61,306 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspironmini View Post
As an outsider who visits the city, I can only partially understand what people are talking about.

I get the point being made about the "yuppiefication" of the city (which is happening all over the country) and the loss of alot of culture, but at the same time maybe people have been living in NYC for so long that they forget to look around.

Yes, there are tons of starbucks in mid-town Manhattan (which is a good thing when I really need to use the restroom), and yes there are trendy and expensive neighborhoods that were once populated by middle class people.

BUT, as someone who visits NYC and hasn't actually lived there, I still see incredible amounts of culture in the city. Maybe you don't have many of the old multi-generational ethnic neighborhoods yet, but have you ever walked down Lexington between around 35th and 25th street? It's block after block of FAMILY-owned authentic Indian cuisine. I'm talking potentially hundreds of restaurants. And while little Italy might be shrinking, it is being engulfed by chinatown, where on certain streets I feel like I am literally in an asian country. Walk around western Harlem and you will see afro-carribean markets and carribean immigrants selling jamaican beef patties.

And I realize that NYC has cleaned up a lot but there are still many dirty, run down, and rough places in the city if that is what you are looking for. My sister lived in uptown in the 140s and it was plenty "gritty" for me to have to step over passed out crackheads who snuck in to sleep in the stairwells. Oh and the reason I was taking the stairs was because the elevator seemed to always be broken. And this wasn't in the 1990's, it was a few months ago.

Bottom line: I do not view NYC as strictly a touristy Disney-World. To me it is an exciting and incredibly unique place with more culture concentrated in one area then anywhere else in the world.
I have a question for you.
would you pay $1100 to live in that dirty apartment? didnt think so.
the mainproblem for me is the housing quality and prices.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 02:57 AM
 
1,095 posts, read 1,154,093 times
Reputation: 256
NYC was a decrepit dump in 1978 when I went there to explore, but it had SOUL! Studio 54 was there packed with all the interesting people, hot chick/models/honey bunny(innocent chic) from Ohio, people wanting sex and cocain, celebrities and and cool average Joe you can have a chat with. All the New york Characters like the mobs and interesting hustlers/Irish Gang(Westies) were there. Not anymore. I got to have a cool conversation with Nicky "Featherstone" of the Westies. He was a cool guy with serious mental ailments only when drank and was put to work by his loudmouth partner. Now, he's in Witness protection program and getting along with average Joes in another city. Now, NYC is still dirty in spots and run-down, and the Times Square is disneyfied for tourist. No more Cheryl Tiegs, Kelly Emberg and the working middle Eastern families being a few blocks from each other which made the fashion crowd likes "halo", mini uphoria experience. When you ran into the photographer and these models, it was like a temporary escape from the rat-race of the Big Apple. Now, they don't do photography with really hot models in Manhattan, and if they do, massive security in place. Back then, no security. Just wait for a brief break, and then you got to mingle with those crews and models. That was pretty fun back then. New York is in better shape in general now, but there's no soul. It's just disneyfied and boring. Do I like New York today or back then? It's a toss up. One hand, you had a complete run-down city with relatively few highrises with alot of them being knocked down in the name of surface lot, and on the other hand, you had SOUL!!!!! Now, the city is gentrified with alot of new highrise, especially by Times Square area and upper Manhattan, east and west, but there's no SOUL!!!! It's now the place for families to bring kids. There are still dope pushers, thugs and homeless people, but they're being pushed around by NYC authorities. They're just less visible.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 03:09 AM
 
1,095 posts, read 1,154,093 times
Reputation: 256
In 1978, the rents in parts of Manhattan, around Soho-$120 a month which in today's dollars would be about $400. Just a few subway stop to Studio 54 and other cool places. Now, the rents in parts of Manhattan-$3000. Just a few subway stop to ESPN Center, Planet Hollywood and other hang outs.
 
Old 07-12-2010, 08:32 AM
 
142 posts, read 240,695 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
I really don't care for the reason why they got there. All I care about is having a safe, clean and desirable city to live in where you don't see drug deals go down in plain sight, ghetto people "chillin" outside sitting on the stoop acting like animals with a disregard to the other residents in the neighborhood. It's an eye sore to look at and gives off the perception that the neighborhood is filled with like-minded ghetto people. No thank you...I'd take a so-called "uppity snooty yuppie" that will not blight the neighborhood over some ghetto trash mofo who thinks they hard and gangsta!
Get over your privilege.
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