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Old 06-10-2010, 01:19 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,474,349 times
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It's all about the blame game...I can blame Blacks for XYZ, and we can blame Hippies/Yuppies for ABC, and go on and on with every group..and by the time we are done...we realize we are all guilty and victims at the same time. But somehow Yuppies are the root of all evil, and the "innocent" people of color get shafted. Hmm...sounds like the blame game hasn't been working for you seeing as you can't get "a decent job" and were "forced to move." Keep blaming whitey all day and spewing hate....it's like drinking poison and then hoping the Yuppies die. You are only hurting yourself and the groups that you allege to speak for (people of color...and you don't speak for us). Good luck with that.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:10 PM
Status: "ERROR: user not found" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Albuquerque
6,782 posts, read 7,022,345 times
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I would say that WASPs make up a fairly small percentage of Yuppies. A lot of Yuppies are Catholic, Black, Irish, Jewish, etc.

It this thread about hating gentrification or hating White people of English descent?
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:11 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,474,349 times
Reputation: 4168
It is a thread about ignorance, which has no limits.
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:48 PM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,203,717 times
Reputation: 639
Hey 5Lakes,

Yes, I, like most blacks, are angry about lots of things. And we have every right to be. And that includes being angry about displacement, due to gentrification in our neighborhoods. I also realize that many poor whites, suffer from the same fate. I wasn't excluding the
effects of gentrification, on poor whites. I'm just pointing out, that minorities are disproportionately affected by gentrification, because we are a disproportionate segment, of the poor in America.

Though Catholic whites may make up an increasing number of Yuppies, the WASPs still predominate, with regards to the affluent Yuppie demographic. At least in most parts of the country. That's why I keep referring to Yuppie WASPs. And yes, I know that there are poor, rural WASPs too. But that's beside the point, because we're talking about affluent Yuppie whites, that gentrify neighborhoods. Not poor whites.

I happen to be both an artist, and gay. And I, like others in my demographic, have been forced out of the Bay area. This was due to gentrifying Yuppies, who drove-up the rents to sky-high levels there. We don't choose to have Yuppies gentrify our neighborhoods. That's
the Yuppie's decision. You say that Yuppies aren't on a 'mission', to displace people in poorer neighborhoods. But Yuppies must realize that's exactly what happens, if their presence drives up rents, in the neighborhoods that they move into.

And the Yuppies don't care how gentrification, affects those that they displace. Landlords may be the ones that actual raise rents, when Yuppies move into poor areas. But that's only because Yuppies moving into to these areas, spark the rent increases in the first place. So, Yuppie gentrification is the root cause, of the displacement of the poor from their neighborhoods.

And again, the dislike of Yuppies, is a result of the Yuppie's value system. They value materialism and acquisition, above all else. This is the reason that me, and most others on this thread, don't care for Yuppies. That's my point, and I'm sticking to it.

Sonya.
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:54 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,474,349 times
Reputation: 4168
Blah blah blah...hate this...blame that...your fault I can't have this and that....see a theme here? I would like to remind people that stereotyping a group a people "Yuppies" is no different than stereotyping blacks or any other group. An angry black person...never seen that before! Guess they are all like that..hateful, anti-white, and ignorant...stereotyping sucks don't it? Let's move on from the hate...look at yourself and step up your game and then you won't have to hate anyone and actually, just maybe, be able to life life without seeing people for the color of their skin, or the amount of money in their bank accounts. The end.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,860 posts, read 2,709,063 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
Hey 5Lakes,

Yes, I, like most blacks, are angry about lots of things. And we have every right to be. And that includes being angry about displacement, due to gentrification in our neighborhoods. I also realize that many poor whites, suffer from the same fate. I wasn't excluding the
effects of gentrification, on poor whites. I'm just pointing out, that minorities are disproportionately affected by gentrification, because we are a disproportionate segment, of the poor in America.

Though Catholic whites may make up an increasing number of Yuppies, the WASPs still predominate, with regards to the affluent Yuppie demographic. At least in most parts of the country. That's why I keep referring to Yuppie WASPs. And yes, I know that there are poor, rural WASPs too. But that's beside the point, because we're talking about affluent Yuppie whites, that gentrify neighborhoods. Not poor whites.

I happen to be both an artist, and gay. And I, like others in my demographic, have been forced out of the Bay area. This was due to gentrifying Yuppies, who drove-up the rents to sky-high levels there. We don't choose to have Yuppies gentrify our neighborhoods. That's
the Yuppie's decision. You say that Yuppies aren't on a 'mission', to displace people in poorer neighborhoods. But Yuppies must realize that's exactly what happens, if their presence drives up rents, in the neighborhoods that they move into.

And the Yuppies don't care how gentrification, affects those that they displace. Landlords may be the ones that actual raise rents, when Yuppies move into poor areas. But that's only because Yuppies moving into to these areas, spark the rent increases in the first place. So, Yuppie gentrification is the root cause, of the displacement of the poor from their neighborhoods.

And again, the dislike of Yuppies, is a result of the Yuppie's value system. They value materialism and acquisition, above all else. This is the reason that me, and most others on this thread, don't care for Yuppies. That's my point, and I'm sticking to it.

Sonya.
Look, I would rather go to Tony's Deli over Panera Bread or Juan's Bodega over 7-11 any day. Society is not perfect though and things evolve over time. This point in the history of our cities is only a short blurb. 50 years ago Juan's Bodega was probably Schmitt’s Sausage Shop. Then Schmitt moved out with all of his German buddies and they were replaced by Puerto Ricans. Maybe, much like yourself, Schmitt did not like this because the character of his old German neighborhood was lost. And hey, someday Juan’s Bodega might get replaced with some fancy Asian-Latin fusion joint patronized by yuppie D-bags.

Yuppies probably do realize that people must move out of neighborhoods for new people to move in (yuppies are usually smart and educated to get those higher paying jobs). At the same time why should they care? People are out to get what’s best for them and improve their lives – this is true on all levels. Actually, the people moving into transitioning areas are probably not even super wealthy. If they were they would just move to the established rich part of town.

Also, you have still not given a real solution to what you see as a problem. You come off as having a sense of entitlement, but at the same time say that yuppies have no right to move into certain neighborhoods. Sounds hypocritical to me. Who are you to say where these people should or should not live? And if you don't think they should move into ethnic neighborhoods then where should they go?

Which leads me to my next point. The real problem here is not that there are too many yuppies. It's that there are not enough desirable urban areas in this county. Many of our urban districts have gone to crap since the 1950's and what we are left with is really only a limited number of truly urban cities. This being the case it puts a cost premium on certain places like San Francisco and New York City. Rents have been driven up in these places because they are desirable and not common place.

In my earlier post I mentioned that people in certain areas are begging for gentrification. You told me to go ask these people to see what they would say. Guess what? I have. I used to live in Cleveland and most of the poorer urban dwellers there would love to have some extra amenities in their neighborhoods, which would be brought on by having some wealthier neighbors. My point here is the economic factors are not the same in all places. If some yuppies move into inner-city Cleveland they will be living side-by-side with the poorer long time residents because that is what the economics dictate. Nobody gets driven out and there is a balance. In the Bay Area housing is expensive and it dictates that only people with higher incomes get the most desirable locations. Much of the country is not like the Bay Area.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:59 PM
 
Location: New York City via Austin via Chicago
910 posts, read 1,840,425 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwomyn View Post
Hey 5Lakes,

Yes, I, like most blacks, are angry about lots of things. And we have every right to be. And that includes being angry about displacement, due to gentrification in our neighborhoods. I also realize that many poor whites, suffer from the same fate. I wasn't excluding the
effects of gentrification, on poor whites. I'm just pointing out, that minorities are disproportionately affected by gentrification, because we are a disproportionate segment, of the poor in America.

Though Catholic whites may make up an increasing number of Yuppies, the WASPs still predominate, with regards to the affluent Yuppie demographic. At least in most parts of the country. That's why I keep referring to Yuppie WASPs. And yes, I know that there are poor, rural WASPs too. But that's beside the point, because we're talking about affluent Yuppie whites, that gentrify neighborhoods. Not poor whites.

I happen to be both an artist, and gay. And I, like others in my demographic, have been forced out of the Bay area. This was due to gentrifying Yuppies, who drove-up the rents to sky-high levels there. We don't choose to have Yuppies gentrify our neighborhoods. That's
the Yuppie's decision. You say that Yuppies aren't on a 'mission', to displace people in poorer neighborhoods. But Yuppies must realize that's exactly what happens, if their presence drives up rents, in the neighborhoods that they move into.

And the Yuppies don't care how gentrification, affects those that they displace. Landlords may be the ones that actual raise rents, when Yuppies move into poor areas. But that's only because Yuppies moving into to these areas, spark the rent increases in the first place. So, Yuppie gentrification is the root cause, of the displacement of the poor from their neighborhoods.

And again, the dislike of Yuppies, is a result of the Yuppie's value system. They value materialism and acquisition, above all else. This is the reason that me, and most others on this thread, don't care for Yuppies. That's my point, and I'm sticking to it.

Sonya.
You are the type of person that spurs gentrification yourself. First, the gays usually moves into undesirable, poor areas for obvious reasons like cheap rent in accessible areas. Next, come the artists(like yourself) that are again looking for the same thing as the pioneering gays. After that, the Hipsters who emulate the artists(but actually have money) that begins to really drive up rents driving out a lot of the poor natives. Next, the yuppies are the ones that follow once the original residents are all but gone and the rents are sky high. Finally, DINKS and young families move in.

I understand your frustration but don't fully agree with it. I'm Black and used to live in the Bucktown/Wicker Park area of Chicago when it was a drug and gang-infested area. We weren't driven out(willingly moved out pre-gentrification to a house) but subsequently, tons of our old neighbors had to move. The neighborhood is one of the hottest in Chicago now and I'm not bitter. Also, my grandma was directly affected by the gentrification in Lincoln Park Chicago in the mid-80s. Now, its THE yuppie neighborhood in Chicago. She lived there for 25 years and was never the same.

Again, we hold no bitterness but understand where you're coming from. Everyone has the right to live whereever they please but a lot of the new residents do display a sense of entitlement like they own the area instead of co-existing with the native area residents. Many of the natives are hostile toward newcomers too so its a 2-way street. I've been affected by gentrification, now i'm myself a BUPPIE(Yuppie who happens to be Black) who moved into a neighborhood contributing to drastic rent increases in this area. I do talk to everyone who's open to talk to me and will say hello. I am street smart and a pretty built person too so that may help. I don't look down on anyone because, I've been in their shoes too. Now, a Yuppie who's always had money and grew up in a pleasantville suburb, I can't comment on them.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Astoria, Queens, you know the scene
719 posts, read 1,475,894 times
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You'd have to be pretty disconnected and unenlightened to believe that racism doesn't exist in America. Racism will never end, but when you use it as an EXCUSE for not succeeding, you have let them win. THAT is my point - STOP the excuses. I never denied that it wouldn't be a struggle, in fact I pointed out how much of a struggle it is for minorities. But when you act like there are no opportunities for minorities in this country because of white people, you just sound like a whiner and a quitter. I sure as hell know I wouldn't have had the same opportunities in the poor area of the Philippines that my parents came from as I do in New York and after my family has made it this far do you think I'm just going to give up and blame white people? Haha, HELL NO. Your ancestors also came a hell of a long way to get you to a place where you have opportunities so why would you not respect that by working hard as hell - you don't have to work anywhere near as hard as they did and you should be thankful for that. Where would Obama be if he believed that America would not let him succeed because of the color of his skin? Do you think successful black people haven't experienced racism? It exists at all levels of society, the difference between people who fail and succeed is that those who succeed work harder than the racist people who try to keep them down. There are always going to be people smarter and better than you, many of them white. We live in a white country, we can't help that, it's not 50/50 nor will it ever be 50/50 so stop focussing on that. Don't blame them for being successful, they worked hard for it too, just work harder and be better than them. Stop making excuses is my point.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:56 PM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,203,717 times
Reputation: 639
Hey SobroGuy,

Don't start in with your 'blacks blaming whitey' rag again! Any time anyone wants to have an honest dialogue about race discrimination, people like you go into defensive mode. You can't deal with the fact, that racial discrimination by whites against minorities, is very real in America. And race discrimination, still affects minorities ability to get ahead. That's a fact. So don't try to turn the discussion about the fact of racism, into a 'minority hating and blaming whitey' thing. Same goes for any other form of discrimination, such as sexism, homophobia, ageism, etc.

Any form of discrimination is bad. And honestly pointing it out, doesn't mean that the person doing so, hates those that discriminate. It's the VALUES of those that discriminate, that folks who point it out, don't like. NOT the actual race, sex, etc. of the group that one suffers discrimination from. For example, feminists have long been accused of hating men. They hate male chauvinist attitudes, not males as a group. Get the picture? You, and some others on this post, can't seem to make that distinction.

If people on this post resent Yuppies, it's NOT because of their affluence, and being white. It's because they have, and do, often misuse their affluence, to force those out of neighborhoods that are less affluent than them. Yuppies may not be at fault for causing all
the problems, that that the poor suffer. However, Yuppies have done enough damage to the poor in society with their wealth, to generate resentment from many. I didn't create this post about Yuppies, after all. I'm just giving my own observations, about Yuppies, as are others on this post. Deal with it!

Sonya.
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:16 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,172 posts, read 2,756,539 times
Reputation: 987
I'm gonna be a little long-winded here so please bear with me ...
Let's use Harlem as an example and go back 36 years. What puzzles me is how in 1974, I walked the streets of Harlem with my Grandma and we felt completely safe. She was a widow and we never worried about her living alone in her apartment. Ten years later, in 1984 -- if you had to go to Harlem for anything -- you did it with extreme caution AND during the daytime. You didn't even want to drive through. Harlem was very much like the song, "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash. Abandoned buildings, crime, drugs, graffiti ... thank GOD my Grandma moved upstate. Fast forward to 1994. Harlem is attracting a new, afro-centric, educated black crowd, and it becomes a middle-class black destination again. Problem is the volume of good housing stock is still low, so buying in is difficult. The housing lotteries give current residents preference to buy in, but the scars of the past, including the rubble of abandoned brownstones that were gutted by crackheads, vacant lots, bad schools, etc., make people skeptical. Meanwhile, the young, black middle-class migration to Atlanta - "The Mecca," and other southern places is in full swing. Kids who grew up in NYC frequently went south for college and never returned. It is at this time that your artists, gays and other early adopters begin moving in. Ten years later, in 2004, the blocks that formerly housed crack dens and homeless people have been bulldozed, brand new townhouses and condos are up and white people are all over the place. There's even a Church of Latter Day Saints!!!

I try to look at things through a historical and socio-economic lens to understand change, and whenever I think about the transformation of NYC I come to an uncomfortable conclusion that the crack epidemic, which led to the complete deterioration of NYC, was engineered to clean out certain neighborhoods of undesirables and rebuild for a brand new group of people. This means that neither the yuppies nor the hipsters were the cause for what NYC has become.
I don't hate yuppies and I don't blame them or hipsters for what happened here. Now it's true that some of them are pretentious (some of the black ones and other non-white ones are too) and I can understand not liking pretentious people but to lump all yuppies into a group and generalize, or to blame white yuppies for something that was probably engineered long before they came isn't fair. They simply came of age at the right time and took advantage of situations to move to Harlem, the LES, Meatpacking District, Park Slope, Fort Greene, Williamsburg, Hells Kitchen, and other neighborhoods that made made 360 degree turnarounds. I am not blaming us for failing to seize the opportunity. Maybe we didn't do it because we were too close to how things used to be and couldn't envision what they could become. Other people arrive here with a clean slate and they're excited to be in NYC. One's perspective really makes a big difference.
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