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Old 07-05-2010, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Toronto
1,655 posts, read 5,089,585 times
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I just recently came back from a trip to NYC, I have not been to the city since the early 90's, but the city has changed A LOT. I recall plenty of ethnic Italian neighborhoods in several (if not a majority) in the Bronx and especially Brooklyn. The recent visit in which I paid about 2 weeks ago really posed the question.. where the hell have the Italians gone? It seems like these neighborhoods are overwhelmingly Black and Latino (PR, Mexican, Central American). I was riding the R line into Brooklyn late one night and the only language spoken on the train was Spanish. It's a real shock to me since I remember this city being something COMPLETELY different in the early nineties compared to this day. I must have seen less than 10 Jews during my entire trip, the city seems overwhelmingly black nowadays. I am not trying to be racist, just pointing out what i've picked up. (Being the only non black person on a full train in east harlem really makes me wonder ... ) Where have the italians and the jews gone, and why were they pushed out in such a short amount of time?

I know this post will gain much flack, but i'm just looking for some insight here. It doesn't seem like New York anymore.

 
Old 07-05-2010, 11:13 PM
 
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The city has changed a lot, but it depends on what neighborhood. Some ethnicities have "naturally" left (retirements, move to suburbs, etc) and some have been pushed out. Many Italian sections have naturally left. Many retired and moved to homes in upstate NY, NJ, PA and FL.

Jews are still around also, but from my observation many have centralized and traditional Jewish neighborhoods have gotten bigger like Midwood and Sunset Park. Also spread around Brooklyn are buildings that are owned and resided by Jews in areas like Clinton Hill (there's a Hisidic residence on Taafe Pl)
 
Old 07-05-2010, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Bronx
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Through out history from every civlization taht harbored Jews, Jews where always viewed as urban mercantile people. Jews will always remain within the confines of a city that is finicially backed like, Cordoba in Medieval Spain or Constantinople in the Eastern Roman Empire. As for New York city, theres more then a million jews in NYC. Jews arent going anywhere in nyc unless NYC becomes a farm again! There is a topic about what happened to NYC and much buzz is what happened to many Italians, the Irish and a current drop in Puerto Ricans in the city, Harlem used the be black but not any more. NYC is changing but im not sure for better or worse. Any time for me to watch Sleepers,

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 07-06-2010 at 12:11 AM..
 
Old 07-06-2010, 12:12 AM
 
Location: In the heights
20,109 posts, read 21,722,272 times
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From what I can tell, the Italians here didn't really get pushed out so much as just sold out in order to live somewhere cheaper. It's kind of a crying shame, and I'm sure the kids in the next generation are going to wish it hadn't happened.
 
Old 07-06-2010, 02:41 AM
 
Location: New York
2,005 posts, read 4,271,287 times
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The Italians and and other ethnic whites were pushed out or ethnically cleansed from the urban centers of the north during the 1950's to the 1990's. These urban ethnic Catholics were a looked at as a growing demographic problem and potential fifth column from the old WASP blue bloods. Jews on the other hand were used to being foreigners in another man's land. The Jews were more eager to assimilate and looked at assimilation as a marker of success. The ethnic Catholics resisted assimilation, remained in cohesive urban neighborhoods, organized themselves in troublesome labor unions and continued to speak their mother tongues. These urban Catholics were looked at as the greatest internal threat as the country exited WWII. These people were growing in power and were able to elect Kennedy as the President. They were poised to take over but it was not to be. Kennedy's assignation signaled that the USA was not going to become a Catholic country. Instead the Catholic would be the one's to shed their identity and become American consumers.


These urban areas were ethnically cleansed using both the the carrot and the stick. The stick was the Federal and foundation money that poured into the cities for federal housing project construction that was targeted for ethnic neighborhoods. Hundreds of these high rise federal projects remain in the formerly Catholic ethnic strongholds of the Bronx and Brooklyn. In addition federal money poured in for mortgage blockbusting operations as urban mortgages were targeted for southern blacks to flood urban areas. The carrot was the federal mortgages that were targeted for the cheap new suburban areas that would be white only and a refuge and a new way of life for the urban ethnics. The goal of this two pronged approach was to break up the ethnic neighborhoods and speed Americanization.


It was in the new suburban area where the ethnic Catholics would be cleansed of their identity, their languages, their religion, their cuisine and take on the identity of the American consumer. Instead of the tight-knit confines of the Catholic neighborhood they would be immersed in the banal, materialistic suburban way of living. TV played a huge role in social conditioning. Away from the close confines of the neighborhood these people would no longer identify with their ethnicity but would now be considered just "white".

1990's were at the tail end of this ethnic cleansing operation. The late 1980's/early 1990's crime wave finished the job. The ethnic cleansing has now been virtually completed in the Northern cities from Boston to NYC to Philly to Detroit to Chicago. While there still may be small pockets of ethnic whites in the Northern cities the few that remain have been culturally cleansed and debased of their power, their religion and way of life.

This is why the urban Catholic ethnic neighborhood in places like Queens, Brooklyn or the Bronx is now an endangered species.

Last edited by samyn on the green; 07-06-2010 at 03:09 AM..
 
Old 07-06-2010, 04:53 AM
 
483 posts, read 713,839 times
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There are a lot of Hasidic Jews in Borough Park/Sunset Park in Brooklyn.
 
Old 07-06-2010, 05:25 AM
 
30,316 posts, read 31,181,855 times
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There are still a lot of Jews in Borough Park in Brooklyn and in Rego Park in Queens (although most of them speak Russian).
 
Old 07-06-2010, 07:38 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,448,993 times
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overwhelmingly black? are you serious right now? there are like a grand total of 5 black ppl in queens at any given time.

its like me, an old lady...maybe a jamaican dude, i dunno are the only black ppl on the train. seems like all the black ppl are in bk or something...

i never see black ppl on the e, f, 7 or r trains.
everybody is from central america/mexico or india/pakistan/china.
 
Old 07-06-2010, 09:07 AM
 
30,316 posts, read 31,181,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eek View Post
overwhelmingly black? are you serious right now? there are like a grand total of 5 black ppl in queens at any given time.

its like me, an old lady...maybe a jamaican dude, i dunno are the only black ppl on the train. seems like all the black ppl are in bk or something...

i never see black ppl on the e, f, 7 or r trains.
everybody is from central america/mexico or india/pakistan/china.
Actually on the weekends you see many black people on the E/F trains going to the last stops on lines in Jamaica, Queens.
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Old 07-06-2010, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,709,520 times
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If you are referring to the fact that previously Italian and Jewish neighborhoods have changed in the last 20 years, I can only recommend that you find a good history book about New York City...and start reading! Every neighborhood in this city has changed from Day One. It's never stopped happening. (Secret that probably shouldn't be revealed, but let's go out on a limb anyway: neighborhoods dominated by other nationalities and ethnicities have changed too).
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