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Old 07-12-2010, 06:40 PM
 
65 posts, read 159,653 times
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Ironic indeed, but so true
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:58 AM
 
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Cochi you keep agreeing with everyone else!!! Your argument is null and void and whatever you allege is wrong against Islam or this Mosque, the Christianity and the Church have done the same or worse. And by the way, those terrorist links are the usual nonsense so as to scare people, and are not rooted in fact. So at the end of the day, people simply don't want the Mosque there because they are small minded, ignorant, and fear-mongers...
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,870,296 times
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Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
So at the end of the day, people simply don't want the Mosque there because they are small minded, ignorant, and fear-mongers...
By and large, you're right. Having agreed with you, I must admit that I wouldn't be thrilled to death at the prospect of a mosque in my neighborhood either (the NIMBY phenomenon strikes again!) But if one was proposed, you also wouldn't hear me screaming and yelling about it. At the end of that same day, life goes on.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:20 AM
 
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I wouldn't be thrilled about it either, curious and intrigued, but not thrilled. But so what...I wouldn't be accusing them of being terrorists, or holding signs to keep them out. It's really sad..its 2010 and it might as well be 1410.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:14 PM
 
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Sobro, when did i allege there is anything wrong with Islam? Please show me. I said we shouldnt be shy about calling a terrorist a terrorist, only if there is, in fact, an established, verified link. If not, the mosque, or any house of worship, should be welcome in the neighborhood. When did I call all Muslims terrorists?
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:25 PM
 
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Cochi...there is no tie to terrorist groups with this Mosque..just rumors from fear mongers and haters...so it has nothing to do with this Mosque..so why bring it up? Secondly, you said "it wasn't Christians or Jews that brought down the WTC"..and again I say so what..what does this have to do with this Mosque opening there? We know all the things Christians have and are still doing to people (rape/abuses), but nobody questions when a church opens.

People, including yourself, are throwing all sorts of excuses and hoping one sticks. The fact remains, this Mosque is not tied to terrorists, why bring it up? Not every Muslim should pay the price for a few zealouts that took down the WTC, otherwise all Christians should pay the price for the rampant abuses/murders the Church, Clergy, and Priests continue to do. If you want to close the Mosque or prevent them from opening for those reasons, let's do that, but let's be sure to shutter ALL Christian church's and schools as well. Otherwise you are just being hypocritical, racist, and ignorant.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM
 
65 posts, read 159,653 times
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Dude, first of all, I didnt bring it up. Second, I am not making any excuses for any religious zealots, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise. You choose to read SOME of my words, not all. Read all my posts on this thread entirely, for content. I think I have stated how i feel about the Catholic church based on my past. When did I say close the mosque? The WTC attack in PARTICULAR was carried out by zealots whose motivation was "religion". So why not be real about what their motivation is? Just like the example on Timothy McVeigh, part of his motivation was "religious" as well as political. It is what it is. And believe me, Im not siding with any one or the other just because I was baptized catholic. I havent been to mass in over 20 years. Again, read my posts. You are being very combative for no good reason.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:57 PM
 
65 posts, read 159,653 times
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There was a group of christian kooks in Michigan who were recently planning to gun down a police officer, only to level a much larger attack at his funeral, and hoped to take out a much larger number of officers in attendance. They are exactly that....christian kooks, I'll be the first to say it. They are hiding behind "religion" to justify their planned misdeeds. Do you see my point, Sobro?
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
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Originally Posted by holden125 View Post
This is a lot of the same stuff that was said about Catholics in the 19th century in America. A Protestant religious revival in the 1820s and 1830s was largely based on fears that an influx of Catholic immigrants posed a threat to America’s Protestant culture. Many American Protestants viewed Catholics as submissive and unthinking, and therefore unfit for citizenship in a democratic nation. Catholic schools were viewed as temples of indoctrination that were not compatible with American values of liberty and democracy. Catholics also were feared because they were seen as favouring the communal over the individual, family time over work and drinking too much.

Lyman Beecher, Protestant minister and father of Henry Ward Beecher, wrote in 1835: "The Catholic system is adverse to liberty, and the clergy to a great extent are dependent on foreigners opposed to the principles of our government, for patronage and support." Even in 1960, JFK faced questions about whether he would show allegiance was to a foreign ruler, the Pope, rather than to the United States.

In the 50's my mother was punished in Catholic school for suggesting that her parents' friends, who were Lutheran, were nice people and might not be eternally damned. It's only since 1964 or so that the Catholic Church has had any openness to "the idea that their religion does not have the sole way to God."

Later, when large number of Jews came to the U.S., they too were perceived as too alien and a threat to the established order. Plus ca change...
I think it is always wise to be cautious when dealing with groups of people who all profess the same beliefs and don't think independently for themselves. I know the Catholics and Protestants and Jews of my great grandparent's day were not as free thinking of members of those religions today.
We have risen above many of our petty differences.
Now, we are faced with another regressive religion, something that most of us have bid good riddance to.
Although they are free to do it, I find it disturbing that they would want to have a mosque in this area. It is like rubbing salt in a wound. It is somewhat insulting to us and a reminder of who did this.
If I were part of a 'peaceful' religion I would not want to build a mosque in that very location.
The act is in very bad taste, to say the least.
Personally, I don't like to have people wearing burkas in a city that bans the public wearing of masks for security reasons.
I think that's a much bigger problem than a mosque.
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