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I think I'll be more than happy to visit the Urban Disneyland a few times a year and stay up here in a city, while not perfect, still has room for middle class people.
There's still room for the middle class in Boston? wow...I guess pigs do fly
As someone who had posted and very strongly considered moving to NYC, this thread has a lot of relevance. While OP was pretty rude towards New Yorkers, some of the responses about Boston weren’t any better. When I thought about moving to NYC to take a job in Finance, I considered:
- My salary here in Boston and compared to the offer that I had (NYC). Even though, I would be making more $ in NY, I decided to discount it by the additional city tax, higher rents and cost of living (Manhattan COL vs. Cambridge COL). I know that many would say that Cambridge, Mass could never compare to Manhattan but my comparison was based on living near work, so that I am not spending endless hours commuting back and forth.
- I also considered the adjustment factor. I am a New Englander by birth and choice, so coming down to NYC would mean taking a few months (at least) to adjust – make friends and find a local restaurant etc. Although I have spent countless weekends in NYC, it’s a lot different when you see the city as resident.
For me, the move was not worth it. If that career opportunity included a possibility of entering partner track at a Financial House, I would have jumped at the opportunity, despite the drawbacks.
I think there are a lot of foolish people that post on the NYC (an Boston, to a lesser extent) boards thinking that they will be the next superstar in their professions, will be the toast of the town. Unfortunately the sad part is that they will NOT make, NYC will be tough and they will leave/stay as bitter New Yorkers.
I know that these decisions are personalized, but you need a good amount of savings before you even think of moving to NYC, you should be prepared to work A LOT of hours (and not visit those art galleries, museums and other points of interest), and be prepared to live in a smaller place relative to where you came from.
Am I being realistic enough?
PS: If I ever get a career changing opportunity in NYC, I’ll take it in a heartbeat.
As someone who had posted and very strongly considered moving to NYC, this thread has a lot of relevance. While OP was pretty rude towards New Yorkers, some of the responses about Boston weren’t any better. When I thought about moving to NYC to take a job in Finance, I considered:
- My salary here in Boston and compared to the offer that I had (NYC). Even though, I would be making more $ in NY, I decided to discount it by the additional city tax, higher rents and cost of living (Manhattan COL vs. Cambridge COL). I know that many would say that Cambridge, Mass could never compare to Manhattan but my comparison was based on living near work, so that I am not spending endless hours commuting back and forth.
- I also considered the adjustment factor. I am a New Englander by birth and choice, so coming down to NYC would mean taking a few months (at least) to adjust – make friends and find a local restaurant etc. Although I have spent countless weekends in NYC, it’s a lot different when you see the city as resident.
For me, the move was not worth it. If that career opportunity included a possibility of entering partner track at a Financial House, I would have jumped at the opportunity, despite the drawbacks.
I think there are a lot of foolish people that post on the NYC (an Boston, to a lesser extent) boards thinking that they will be the next superstar in their professions, will be the toast of the town. Unfortunately the sad part is that they will NOT make, NYC will be tough and they will leave/stay as bitter New Yorkers.
I know that these decisions are personalized, but you need a good amount of savings before you even think of moving to NYC, you should be prepared to work A LOT of hours (and not visit those art galleries, museums and other points of interest), and be prepared to live in a smaller place relative to where you came from.
Am I being realistic enough?
PS: If I ever get a career changing opportunity in NYC, I’ll take it in a heartbeat.
I cannot agree more to what you said. Having lived in Boston for 11 years, I decided to move to a new place to experience new life. I knew that NYC would not be an easy place for me because a lot of people in Manhattan looked miserable during my previous visits.
Nonetheless, I was curious about how it was like when I actually lived and worked in NYC, so I moved here and found a job.
Work is long hours and commute is not easy. My quality of life goes downhill since I moved here. I'm as busy as hell because I don't have any free time, and I see that other New Yorkers are always in a big hurry as well.
Most drivers are very skillful at manuvering to cut through a crowd without hitting anyone. That kinda makes me wonder why Yankees are good at baseball - They cut corners and move swiftfully just like these drivers, a survival skill acquired only by living in a crowded area in New York.
However, New York does have something to offer, jobs, and that's why people still move here. They are willing to endure many hardships in order to have the opportunity to work.
I'm glad that I've got a chance to live and work here and to experience the city, and to understand what life is like when all you do is to work, and all you care if your job.
I'm not trying to say that Boston is better than NYC, I'm just saying normal people can't live in NYC anymore. I know in terms of culture and a million other things there is no comparison but it is no longer viable for people to live i NYC unless they have government assistance or are rich. Why dream of living in NYC and end up in a shack with 2 roommates in Sunnyside when you could live much better at the same job almost anywhere in America?
Some people are going to mistake this for a "Boston vs. NYC" or "I hate NYC" thread, but really you could substitute any other major metro area in the country and draw the same conclusions. (SF being the possible exception, but I've never lived there so couldn't say) You don't hate NYC, you've just been lucky to spend enough time here to dispel any illusions about the place. That's a good thing.
Take it from me, I moved here for a job 6 months ago from a nice little city on the west coast (Portland, OR) where I'd lived happily and prosperously for quite awhile, and I have to say I can't really disagree with any of your main points. Eventually the rose-colored glasses come off and it turns into just another place to live, so you have to be very honest with yourself whether the cost of admission is worth it to you. I'm starting to think it's not for me, but that's okay...sometimes you need some hard-won perspective to realize where your priorities lie.
I am that rare New Yorker (born and bred) who also spent 25 of my adult years (college, grad schoool, then work) living in Boston and came back to NY due to family reasons ONLY in my 40's. Now I am back here in NYC (Queens) for the past 15+ years, by necessity, not desire.
For me, anyway, Boston wins hands down over NYC. And that includes Manhattan and all that it has to offer. I don't need to be in a city that has skyscrapers everywhere and racing cars down the many avenues and streets, ready to knock you over, or where you can hardly even walk, many days, down the street without being pushed or crowded by the throngs.
I hate the fact that the subway lines are myriad and complex and take you on hideous rides through Sunnyside, Woodside, Corona, etc. or ugly Brooklyn. Ugh! Bad news!
I could care less about high fashion and am sick to the death of seeing ads and shows about the latest designer handbags or fashion, and freak-looking women who have botoxed and surgeried themselves to looking like cousins of Michael Jackson. This is not what I live for and would not spend my money on! You go to Herald Square and it is mostly lower class kids who buy things I would never want, a boring Macy's which is basically the same in, say, Worcester, for heaven's sake. The merchandise is all the same! It takes time and money to get around town and many of the movies are available nationwide. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is fabulous, yes, but to live in NYC just for that? Keep in mind that it is so crowded much of the year, absolutely jam packed and I find that experience to be very stressful and not what I am looking for. Or for the Whitney, the Guggenheim, the Modern or the Frick, same deal. The New York Philharmonic is great, but there are other symphonies in the U.S. that are considered to be better. The Metropolitan Opera (I have been there many times) is wonderful, but to live in NYC just to be able to get to the Met?
The boroughs of NYC are Queens, Staten Island, Brooklyn, The Bronx and Manhattan. I personally find that they are NOT attractive (and I live in a highly sought after section, expensive, in Queens, and plan to move a away as soon as our "duties" are up). The housing in NYC is singularly hideous in "architectural" design (if you want to call it that) in most of the boroughs and many of the neighborhoods and nobody here seems to even notice. They seem brain dead when it comes to caring about the looks of a building. The main streets are ugly, ugly and more ugly. Hideous signs and uncared-for sidewalks, nothing with a concern about the commmunity looks.
I am white and Northern European in ancestry. I do NOT need "diversity" in my life any longer. I have had it up to my eyeballs. People from Asia, Southeast Asia, Korea, China, the Caribbean Islands, the old Soviet Union states, South and Central America in ABUNDANCE, all immigrants. I believe, in theory, that it is very good for us to have these newcomers and welcome them, but (hypocrite, an honest one, at least, that I am), I am dying to get back to my Irish American and Italian, Polish, French Canadian neighbors who understand me and I understand them. And who understand and cherish the New England lifestyle. I guess it is not nice to say that, but I am over 60 and not needing "new" cultures to contend with.
Boston is wonderful because it is beautiful, walkable and has world class museums and classical music institutions galore, not to mention the magnificent colleges and universities and medical institutions. The harbor beats any harbor section in NYC - and you don't take a boat ride in NYC to the Harbor Islands! You can be in NH in less than an hour, Portland, ME in under 2 and a half hours, etc. No comparison to NY.
Last edited by Martha Anne; 11-07-2010 at 09:03 AM..
You should have asked the local middle class (of any race) where they live because we are NOT in Manhattan.
As a longtime lurker, this thread made me finally register and post. I have to say that I wish I would have realized this truth ages ago! I have always wanted to experience life in NYC, but I turned down job opportunities there for years bc I was terrified I would never be able to make ends meet.
Finally I decided to take a short-term contract assignment and just see what happened. I was stunned when the staffing agency gave me the list of available housing. Perfectly nice studios in Queens that cost only slightly more than what I had been paying in DC? I could kick myself for not realizing that there is more to NYC than Manhattan, and there are other nearby options that are pretty great.
I can't see myself staying here forever, but only because I'm getting the impression that NYC is not a great place to be an amateur artist. It's a mecca for aspiring professional singers, dancers, actors, etc. But aside from choral groups, I haven't found many performance opportunities for people who aren't aspiring to make a career out of their art, people who have other professions and just want to create and perform in the evenings after work. Even the few groups that are technically amateur/volunteer consist mainly of aspiring professionals with advanced degrees who are doing unpaid opera to try to build their resume in an uber-competitive market. I may have some degree of talent, but I can't compete with people with masters degrees from Julliard and MSM.
I really do miss doing amateur opera, but that's not going to cause me to pitch a fit and claim that NYC is a terrible place and question why anyone would ever want to come here. I'm so grateful to have the chance to live here for awhile and experience everything this city has to offer. I just wish I would have done it sooner!
Anyway, in my personal experience (and from observation) home is always where the heart is. Not to sound corny, but it's true. I never really understand the "city wars" I read about on this website. Like another poster said, after a while, a city is just a city. 9/10 people are dying to come to NY (or leave) because they feel like they're missing (or looking for) something. That something often has more to do with a human connection with like-minded people and interests, rather than any particular spatial preference. Once they find (or fail to find) this, they make up all the reasons in the world why they love or hate their particular city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne
I am that rare New Yorker (born and bred) who also spent 25 of my adult years (college, grad schoool, then work) living in Boston and came back to NY due to family reasons ONLY in my 40's. Now I am back here in NYC (Queens) for the past 15+ years, by necessity, not desire.
For me, anyway, Boston wins hands down over NYC. And that includes Manhattan and all that it has to offer. I don't need to be in a city that has skyscrapers everywhere and racing cars down the many avenues and streets, ready to knock you over, or where you can hardly even walk, many days, down the street without being pushed or crowded by the throngs.
I hate the fact that the subway lines are myriad and complex and take you on hideous rides through Sunnyside, Woodside, Corona, etc. or ugly Brooklyn. Ugh! Bad news!
I could care less about high fashion and am sick to the death of seeing ads and shows about the latest designer handbags or fashion, and freak-looking women who have botoxed and surgeried themselves to looking like cousins of Michael Jackson. This is not what I live for and would not spend my money on! You go to Herald Square and it is mostly lower class kids who buy things I would never want, a boring Macy's which is basically the same in, say, Worcester, for heaven's sake. The merchandise is all the same! It takes time and money to get around town and many of the movies are available nationwide. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is fabulous, yes, but to live in NYC just for that? Keep in mind that it is so crowded much of the year, absolutely jam packed and I find that experience to be very stressful and not what I am looking for. Or for the Whitney, the Guggenheim, the Modern or the Frick, same deal. The New York Philharmonic is great, but there are other symphonies in the U.S. that are considered to be better. The Metropolitan Opera (I have been there many times) is wonderful, but to live in NYC just to be able to get to the Met?
The boroughs of NYC are Queens, Staten Island, Brooklyn, The Bronx and Manhattan. I personally find that they are NOT attractive (and I live in a highly sought after section, expensive, in Queens, and plan to move a away as soon as our "duties" are up). The housing in NYC is singularly hideous in "architectural" design (if you want to call it that) in most of the boroughs and many of the neighborhoods and nobody here seems to even notice. They seem brain dead when it comes to caring about the looks of a building. The main streets are ugly, ugly and more ugly. Hideous signs and uncared-for sidewalks, nothing with a concern about the commmunity looks.
I am white and Northern European in ancestry. I do NOT need "diversity" in my life any longer. I have had it up to my eyeballs. People from Asia, Southeast Asia, Korea, China, the Caribbean Islands, the old Soviet Union states, South and Central America in ABUNDANCE, all immigrants. I believe, in theory, that it is very good for us to have these newcomers and welcome them, but (hypocrite, an honest one, at least, that I am), I am dying to get back to my Irish American and Italian, Polish, French Canadian neighbors who understand me and I understand them. And who understand and cherish the New England lifestyle. I guess it is not nice to say that, but I am over 60 and not needing "new" cultures to contend with.
Boston is wonderful because it is beautiful, walkable and has world class museums and classical music institutions galore, not to mention the magnificent colleges and universities and medical institutions. The harbor beats any harbor section in NYC - and you don't take a boat ride in NYC to the Harbor Islands! You can be in NH in less than an hour, Portland, ME in under 2 and a half hours, etc. No comparison to NY.
I don't blame ya! Whether we like it or not, pretty much ALL of your observations/statements were flat out TRUE. I'm also sick of this place, but trying to make the best of it for now.
I am that rare New Yorker (born and bred) who also spent 25 of my adult years (college, grad schoool, then work) living in Boston and came back to NY due to family reasons ONLY in my 40's. Now I am back here in NYC (Queens) for the past 15+ years, by necessity, not desire.
For me, anyway, Boston wins hands down over NYC. And that includes Manhattan and all that it has to offer. I don't need to be in a city that has skyscrapers everywhere and racing cars down the many avenues and streets, ready to knock you over, or where you can hardly even walk, many days, down the street without being pushed or crowded by the throngs.
I hate the fact that the subway lines are myriad and complex and take you on hideous rides through Sunnyside, Woodside, Corona, etc. or ugly Brooklyn. Ugh! Bad news!
I could care less about high fashion and am sick to the death of seeing ads and shows about the latest designer handbags or fashion, and freak-looking women who have botoxed and surgeried themselves to looking like cousins of Michael Jackson. This is not what I live for and would not spend my money on! You go to Herald Square and it is mostly lower class kids who buy things I would never want, a boring Macy's which is basically the same in, say, Worcester, for heaven's sake. The merchandise is all the same! It takes time and money to get around town and many of the movies are available nationwide. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is fabulous, yes, but to live in NYC just for that? Keep in mind that it is so crowded much of the year, absolutely jam packed and I find that experience to be very stressful and not what I am looking for. Or for the Whitney, the Guggenheim, the Modern or the Frick, same deal. The New York Philharmonic is great, but there are other symphonies in the U.S. that are considered to be better. The Metropolitan Opera (I have been there many times) is wonderful, but to live in NYC just to be able to get to the Met?
The boroughs of NYC are Queens, Staten Island, Brooklyn, The Bronx and Manhattan. I personally find that they are NOT attractive (and I live in a highly sought after section, expensive, in Queens, and plan to move a away as soon as our "duties" are up). The housing in NYC is singularly hideous in "architectural" design (if you want to call it that) in most of the boroughs and many of the neighborhoods and nobody here seems to even notice. They seem brain dead when it comes to caring about the looks of a building. The main streets are ugly, ugly and more ugly. Hideous signs and uncared-for sidewalks, nothing with a concern about the commmunity looks.
I am white and Northern European in ancestry. I do NOT need "diversity" in my life any longer. I have had it up to my eyeballs. People from Asia, Southeast Asia, Korea, China, the Caribbean Islands, the old Soviet Union states, South and Central America in ABUNDANCE, all immigrants. I believe, in theory, that it is very good for us to have these newcomers and welcome them, but (hypocrite, an honest one, at least, that I am), I am dying to get back to my Irish American and Italian, Polish, French Canadian neighbors who understand me and I understand them. And who understand and cherish the New England lifestyle. I guess it is not nice to say that, but I am over 60 and not needing "new" cultures to contend with.
Boston is wonderful because it is beautiful, walkable and has world class museums and classical music institutions galore, not to mention the magnificent colleges and universities and medical institutions. The harbor beats any harbor section in NYC - and you don't take a boat ride in NYC to the Harbor Islands! You can be in NH in less than an hour, Portland, ME in under 2 and a half hours, etc. No comparison to NY.
True, true, and SUPER true. I admire your honesty. I feel the same way. I am not from Boston or NYC, but find Boston much cleaner, etc. I can see myself moving away from NYC and just coming back for an occasional family visit or entertainment perhaps.
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I have always wanted to experience life in NYC, but I turned down job opportunities there for years bc I was terrified I would never be able to make ends meet. 
I could kick myself for not realizing that there is more to NYC than Manhattan, and there are other nearby options that are pretty great. 
I'm so grateful to have the chance to live here for awhile and experience everything this city has to offer. 
