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I work in Wakefield in the vicinity of White Plains Rd and 238th street for the past 2 decades. I live in central Riverdale in the vic of Broadway and W 252 street. My grandmother lived a few blocks north of me in N Riverdale for 25 years before i moved here
Several times a year i go to functions for the job. Some include the Villa Barone Ristorante (Westchester Ave by the 6 train terminal) and VB Manor (Throgs Neck Expwy nr Randall Ave) as well as Maestro's (Morris Park and Bronxdale Ave). Also went to a house party on Yates Avenue near Van Nest and Pierce as well as a memorial day bbq in Throgs Neck (Stadium Ave near the sound). Most of these events took place between 5 and 17 years ago.
It seemed that whenever I returned home to Riverdale from these events in these neighborhoods that generally were culturally Italian (the latter 2 events especially), I felt really strange. I'm not making a comparison between Riverdale-caucasian and other Bronx neighborhoods-minorities, I mean that Riverdale just seemed so strange after returning from these eastern Bronx neighborhoods that are probably are just as safe, if not safer, than where I live.
In fact, these eastern Bronx sections even seem totally different than the surrounding areas near Riverdale like Van Cortlandt Village and Kingsbridge.
It's like coming back to NY after spending a few days on the road coming back from Florida or the south. Even tho the trips were less than 10 miles away, it just feels so strange to come back to Riverdale from these areas
Does anyone know what i am talking about? Has anyone experienced this?
Could it be that the eastern Bronx caucasian outlook is more republican (I've heard Morris Park referred to as republican and other worse descriptions) than over in Riverdale/Kingsbridge, which are basically northern extensions of Manhattan, which is pretty liberal?
Or is it the Italian side vs the Irish/Jewish side which have a culturally different feel?
if you contrast Morris Park Avenue between Williamsbridge rd and Bronxdale Avenue in Morris Park and Johnson Avenue between 232 street and 236th street in Riv erdale, you will see many of the same kinds of housing stock, small homes, modest apartments, well kept, even modernistic businesses, but if you walk the streets each neighborhood seems totally different from the other
I work in Wakefield in the vicinity of White Plains Rd and 238th street for the past 2 decades. I live in central Riverdale in the vic of Broadway and W 252 street. My grandmother lived a few blocks north of me in N Riverdale for 25 years before i moved here
Several times a year i go to functions for the job. Some include the Villa Barone Ristorante (Westchester Ave by the 6 train terminal) and VB Manor (Throgs Neck Expwy nr Randall Ave) as well as Maestro's (Morris Park and Bronxdale Ave). Also went to a house party on Yates Avenue near Van Nest and Pierce as well as a memorial day bbq in Throgs Neck (Stadium Ave near the sound). Most of these events took place between 5 and 17 years ago.
It seemed that whenever I returned home to Riverdale from these events in these neighborhoods that generally were culturally Italian (the latter 2 events especially), I felt really strange. I'm not making a comparison between Riverdale-caucasian and other Bronx neighborhoods-minorities, I mean that Riverdale just seemed so strange after returning from these eastern Bronx neighborhoods that are probably are just as safe, if not safer, than where I live.
In fact, these eastern Bronx sections even seem totally different than the surrounding areas near Riverdale like Van Cortlandt Village and Kingsbridge.
It's like coming back to NY after spending a few days on the road coming back from Florida or the south. Even tho the trips were less than 10 miles away, it just feels so strange to come back to Riverdale from these areas
Does anyone know what i am talking about? Has anyone experienced this?
Could it be that the eastern Bronx caucasian outlook is more republican (I've heard Morris Park referred to as republican and other worse descriptions) than over in Riverdale/Kingsbridge, which are basically northern extensions of Manhattan, which is pretty liberal?
Or is it the Italian side vs the Irish/Jewish side which have a culturally different feel?
if you contrast Morris Park Avenue between Williamsbridge rd and Bronxdale Avenue in Morris Park and Johnson Avenue between 232 street and 236th street in Riv erdale, you will see many of the same kinds of housing stock, small homes, modest apartments, well kept, even modernistic businesses, but if you walk the streets each neighborhood seems totally different from the other
Maybe what you are describing is simply the difference between a real "ethnic" neighborhood and a bland,more "Americanized" or homogenized neighborhood.
Ever really hang out( in their houses) with people who have been in Woodlawn for 2 or 3 generations ? Maybe 2nd or 3rd generation Fire Dept people ? Do you think they are closer to the Morris Park people in lifestyle/outlook or to the Riverdale people?
I work in Wakefield in the vicinity of White Plains Rd and 238th street for the past 2 decades. I live in central Riverdale in the vic of Broadway and W 252 street. My grandmother lived a few blocks north of me in N Riverdale for 25 years before i moved here
Several times a year i go to functions for the job. Some include the Villa Barone Ristorante (Westchester Ave by the 6 train terminal) and VB Manor (Throgs Neck Expwy nr Randall Ave) as well as Maestro's (Morris Park and Bronxdale Ave). Also went to a house party on Yates Avenue near Van Nest and Pierce as well as a memorial day bbq in Throgs Neck (Stadium Ave near the sound). Most of these events took place between 5 and 17 years ago.
It seemed that whenever I returned home to Riverdale from these events in these neighborhoods that generally were culturally Italian (the latter 2 events especially), I felt really strange. I'm not making a comparison between Riverdale-caucasian and other Bronx neighborhoods-minorities, I mean that Riverdale just seemed so strange after returning from these eastern Bronx neighborhoods that are probably are just as safe, if not safer, than where I live.
In fact, these eastern Bronx sections even seem totally different than the surrounding areas near Riverdale like Van Cortlandt Village and Kingsbridge.
It's like coming back to NY after spending a few days on the road coming back from Florida or the south. Even tho the trips were less than 10 miles away, it just feels so strange to come back to Riverdale from these areas
Does anyone know what i am talking about? Has anyone experienced this?
Could it be that the eastern Bronx caucasian outlook is more republican (I've heard Morris Park referred to as republican and other worse descriptions) than over in Riverdale/Kingsbridge, which are basically northern extensions of Manhattan, which is pretty liberal?
Or is it the Italian side vs the Irish/Jewish side which have a culturally different feel?
if you contrast Morris Park Avenue between Williamsbridge rd and Bronxdale Avenue in Morris Park and Johnson Avenue between 232 street and 236th street in Riv erdale, you will see many of the same kinds of housing stock, small homes, modest apartments, well kept, even modernistic businesses, but if you walk the streets each neighborhood seems totally different from the other
I don't mean to change the subject but you are very familiar with Bronx's restaurants. What neighborhood or street can you find outside dining that is similar to Clinton Hill or Smith st. in Brooklyn? Please don't say City Island. Been there, done that.
in the early 90's. I would imagine that the Woodlawn types you describe are more toward the Morris Park types
I see N Riverdale as being very similar in appearance to Woodlawn (same housing stock, lots of irish and germans) but I don't know if you would see as many public servant types in N Riverdale as you would in Woodlawn
in the early 90's. I would imagine that the Woodlawn types you describe are more toward the Morris Park types...
I think so too... definitely.
I really think the big difference is insularity.Woodlawn and Morris Park tend to be more ethnic( insular) communities. Woodlawn even more so than Morris Park.Riverdale is a much more open place. I think that's why it feels strange to you.
actually i thought you had it reversed--that you meant Riverdale was ethnic and Morris Park/Pelham Bay were bland but i see what you are saying now
No,Riverdale is the blander,more open, more Americanized place.Most Jews have let go of their ethnicity to a large degree.So even though Riverdale might be a predominantly Jewish neighborhood,it doesn't really function as an ethnic enclave.
Morris Park and Woodlawn and parts of Throg's Neck are still ethnic enclaves for the most part.Woodlawn even more than most because it has a constant resupply of people from the homeland and that helps them hang onto their ethnic identity and reinforces it. Plus,it's a very isolated place because of Woodlawn Cemetary and Van Cortlandt Park sort of surrounding it.
the streets between 254th and Yonkers between B'way and Riverdale Avenue--very similar to Woodlawn in appearance( exact same house styles, small apt bldgs) and ethnicity(Irish italian, german). Do you think it's still different than Woodlawn in some ways?
the streets between 254th and Yonkers between B'way and Riverdale Avenue--very similar to Woodlawn in appearance( exact same house styles, small apt bldgs) and ethnicity(Irish italian, german). Do you think it's still different than Woodlawn in some ways?
Yes ,I think it's different because Woodlawn has a higher concentration of Irish...it's really almost all Irish. I don't think North Riverdale has all the new Irish immigrants that Woodlawn has( the sort of constant flow) and I don't think it has the Irish cultural institutions that Woodlawn has such as schools that teach kids to speak Irish,etc. And North Riverdale doesn't have streets lined with Irish pubs,restaurants,etc.
Woodlawn is a very,very unique place in NYC these days.It is really the last full blown ,old time ,Western European ethnic enclave left in the whole city.
Little Italy and Morris Park and other parts of the Eastern Bronx still have fairly strong ethnic identities but they are dwindling and being infiltrated. Woodlawn is thriving,actually growing once again because the Irish still want to immigrate here,legal or not.The Italians no longer have any interest in coming to the U.S.
Last edited by bluedog2; 09-07-2010 at 07:45 PM..
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I was at a house party in Woodlawn
