NEW Updated Section 8 Payment Standards (Bad for the Bronx!!!) (bad credit, unemployment benefits)
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Oh it's implied, lol. It. Is. Implied. I'm amazed by how unaware of yourself you are. You basically told us that you did everything "the right way" and STILL lost, therefore no empathy or sympathy for others is necessary. Yet, we can't assume you feel somewhat slighted by your current circumstance? PLEASE.
Glad you're using "irrelevant" now. Baby steps...
You know what they say about assuming! lol.
Seriously, if you cannot make any educated points...I'm just going to have to ignore you.
Point blank: Welfare leeches are disgusting. I have NO sympathy for a person who doesn't have enough pride to work hard and take responsibility for their actions. There is a difference between leeches and people who need some help for a few months, or even a year.
Seriously, if you cannot make any educated points...I'm just going to have to ignore you.
Point blank: Welfare leeches are disgusting. I have NO sympathy for a person who doesn't have enough pride to work hard and take responsibility for their actions. There is a difference between leeches and people who need some help for a few months, or even a year.
"Educated points"?? I thought I wrote too much for you to read? LOL. Choose a side and stick to it.
Point blank: You are the very last person our society should look to for guidance on the issue of welfare (or probably much else). If you're too stupid to realize that many people one welfare have full time jobs and are not social leeches or deviants as you've implied in this thread, I don't know what to tell you. Whining about them won't get you what you want. Toting a nursing degree you can't use doesn't give you moral high-ground either.
Do let us know how the job market fares for you. Perhaps we should set an employment timeline for you too, no?
In this economic climate, middle class and "degreed working class" arrogance is nothing short of comedic.
Where did I say class boundaries are unnecessary? There is simply no need to dump on them or stereotype them. And even when they are confined to ghettos, it is wealthier people that eventually attempt to displace them. Therefore, it's usually us trying to move to THEIR neighborhoods.
Again, as I said to Apples. Show me a period in American history-better yet-point me to ANY data that says there are enough jobs for everyone in this country, and that the jobs they can get can provide a decent standard of living, and you will have an argument. None of you can because we all know that in our system, SOMEBODY has to lose. Who else will clean our public toilets for slightly higher than a living wage?
Sooo, you hate section 8ers and welfare recipients, but you want people to sympathize with middle class people who have relished in a culture of credit cards and debt, yet saved nothing to send their kids to school???? Like I said, the bottom of this debate is nothing but hypocrisy. LOL. Once upon a time, when massive GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE (read: HANDOUTS) in the form of educational financial aid was unheard of, people would have thought it was crazy to give the masses money for college. In fact, this handout CREATED the middle class. And you want sympathy cuz people who lease cars and spend 1/5 of their income on Christmas can't send their kids to State Uni.
And I actually agree-the middle class is shrinking and suffering. But is the solution to hold unfounded contempt for people who have nothing to do with that? If YOU can't find a decent job, how do you expect them to?
The dominant welfare narrative is always about the "handout" individual, then to sound progressive we talk about the "good ones". Well, I appreciate middle class folks who take responsibility for the situation they're in too. Like I would never have gone into nursing as this saturation issue was predicted nearly a decade ago. Also, I wouldn't be too quick to assume this will boil over. The teachers I know who actually found jobs are doing well too. But there are quite a few free lancing for blogs . You may find work in a convalescent home...
Half the nurses I know in the US are from other countries. And apparently were able to immigrate *because* they're nurses. I would bet we will still be facing this problem 5-10 years from now, despite the aging baby boomers. It will take me to long to explain now, but let it be known I stated this won't end any time soon....
Explain to me what you mean by the "good ones". I do not understand that. I think you are missing my point. The point I am trying to make is I do not want section 8 people in my neighborhood because of their values. It is difficult to teach good values to your children if you lack them. I am not a person on the outside thumbing my nose at these folks. I know them quite well. I want to live in a neighborhood with hard working people with good odd fashion values. Taking handout should be temporary not forever. What defines a person is how they react to adversity.
There are middle class people that live beyond their means and do not have the money to educate their children. However, I do not believe that is the case for most of them. It is expensive to live especially when you do not receive aid to pay your bills.
Nursing is a very diverse profession. They are not limited to working in a hospital. Apples will do fine. Teachers are also having the same issues. I know one that went oversees to teach. He didn't resort to handouts because he can't find a job in the states. More and more people are moving oversees for job opportunities. You make it work. That is what character building is all about.
There will always be some hot profession that people are encouraged to go into and then it becomes saturated. Is that a reason to take hand outs for the rest of your life? No, dust yourself off and figure it out.
The point I am trying to make is I do not want section 8 people in my neighborhood because of their values. It is difficult to teach good values to your children if you lack them.
Umm, so your values are tied to your economic class? News to me...
Also, I don't like living in section 8 buildings either. Why? Because the experience I've had in the past shows me that landlords who accept them don't feel the need to maintain the properties. When society sees you as value-less, they treat you as such. I am blessed to not have to subject myself to that circumstance, so I don't. It has nothing to do with assumptions about them or their values. Just like middle and upper class people, poor people are diverse.
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I am not a person on the outside thumbing my nose at these folks. I know them quite well. I want to live in a neighborhood with hard working people with good odd fashion values. Taking handout should be temporary not forever. What defines a person is how they react to adversity.
I know them quite well too. And aside from the images of "hood rich" people we're all familiar with, MANY people on section 8 are also hardworking and want good things for their children.
As I said before, middle class people (and middle class wannabes) have been taught not to smell our own shiit. We also receive handouts (and increasingly so More middle-class jobless need government aid - SFGate). The wealthy are held even less accountable. Very few people who have a "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" story, TRULY did it with no help. And in times like these I'm surprised this narrative has survived. So when people who are perpetually poor or unemployed need assistance, we hate them for being a product of our economic system. But now semi-educated people (like Apples) took handouts to go to school and still can't find good work and we lick her bum. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
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There are middle class people that live beyond their means and do not have the money to educate their children. However, I do not believe that is the case for most of them. It is expensive to live especially when you do not receive aid to pay your bills.
Ohhhh, so middle class irresponsibility isn't common (although most Americans are in some form of debt). And it's not their fault when they are in debt??? C'mon. You sure have a lot of convenient exceptions to your assessment of who has good values. Perpetually owing someone is not a good value IMO. I would think with the education and values the middle class has, surely we shouldn't be in the dire housing and credit card situation many (not some) MANY are in, right? And you realize that this crisis is a result of taking money you can't afford, often times for material goods and neighborhoods you know you really can't afford to be in. How are these good values? Middle class people have had their hands out for decades now. That's why half of us won't be middle class in the coming future.
But I just find it funny that you positively interpret this behavior, but negatively interpret that of the lower class.
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Nursing is a very diverse profession. They are not limited to working in a hospital.
This is true, but the pay isn't always good if you aren't in certain areas. Nobody wants to go to school to end up making what they couldn't made had they went straight to work or chose another less stressful profession.
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Apples will do fine. Teachers are also having the same issues. I know one that went oversees to teach. He didn't resort to handouts because he can't find a job in the states.
Again, you do realize the vast difference in opportunities for a brick-layer or housekeeper and a teacher or a nurse, right? Who is going to get on a plane and leave the US to become poorer doing construction or being a nanny in another country? Teaching abroad can actually pay MORE (I know, I've done it), especially in some parts of Asia. This is a bad example. Also, very few countries will take an American nurse over the tons of nurses waiting for work that are already there. That nurse would have to be highly specialized or own a business.
Also, plenty of middle class people are taking "handouts" now. As the article I provided shows.
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More and more people are moving oversees for job opportunities. You make it work. That's is what character building is all about.
So the solution to our economic problem is for a chunk of the country to just leave? Are you serious? You do realize that most countries do not have immigration policies like that of the US, right?
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There will always be some hot profession that people are encouraged to go into and then it becomes saturated. Is that a reason to take hand outs for the rest of your life? No, dust yourself off and figure it out.
Make sure you let Apples no this in a few months...
But you do realize that we aren't talking about people with "professions". We're talking about people with "jobs". Jobs that are unstable, benefit-less, and nearly impossible to build wealth from.
Umm, so your values are tied to your economic class? News to me...
-My values are tied to working for everything I have regardless of income.
Also, I don't like living in section 8 buildings either. Why? Because the experience I've had in the past shows me that landlords who accept them don't feel the need to maintain the properties. When society sees you as value-less, they treat you as such. I am blessed to not have to subject myself to that circumstance, so I don't. It has nothing to do with assumptions about them or their values. Just like middle and upper class people, poor people are diverse.
-Tell me about. I do not need a lecture from you regarding the poor. You are making this about economics. It is about values and integrity.
I know them quite well too. And aside from the images of "hood rich" people we're all familiar with, MANY people on section 8 are also hardworking and want good things for their children.
-I guess a few may be hardworking, but these folks should not be on it FOREVER.
As I said before, middle class people (and middle class wannabes) have been taught not to smell our own shiit. We also receive handouts (and
increasingly so More middle-class jobless need government aid - SFGate). The wealthy are held even less accountable. Very few people who have a "pulled myself up by my bootstraps" story, TRULY did it with no help. And in times like these I'm surprised this narrative has survived. So when people who are perpetually poor or unemployed need assistance, we hate them for being a product of our economic system. But now semi-educated people (like Apples) took handouts to go to school and still can't find good work and we lick her bum. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
-I could care less what you think. I have no issue with giving aid to the disadvantage. I have issue with people who receive it for their ENTIRE LIFE . For some reason, you have not addressed that. Why are you personally attacking Apples? What does semi-educated mean?
Ohhhh, so middle class irresponsibility isn't common (although most Americans are in some form of debt). And it's not their fault when they are in debt??? C'mon. You sure have a lot of convenient exceptions to your assessment of who has good values. Perpetually owing someone is not a good value IMO. I would think with the education and values the middle class has, surely we shouldn't be in the dire housing and credit card situation many (not some) MANY are in, right? And you realize that this crisis is a result of taking money you can't afford, often times for material goods and neighborhoods you know you really can't afford to be in. How are these good values? Middle class people have had their hands out for decades now. That's why half of us won't be middle class in the coming future.
But I just find it funny that you positively interpret this behavior, but negatively interpret that of the lower class.
-Not at all, I acknowledge some middle class people are irresponsible. I have no tolerance for them either. It is tough when you have to pay ALL of the bills. You have not addressed that. Do you think unemployment is enough to pay the bills? It may be if the government paid for your rent and health insurance.
This is true, but the pay isn't always good if you aren't in certain areas. Nobody wants to go to school to end up making what they couldn't made had they went straight to work or chose another less stressful profession.
-That is true. I guess that is why most people continue to strive for something better. I have a feeling you do not understand what I mean by that, huh?
Again, you do realize the vast difference in opportunities for a brick-layer or housekeeper and a teacher or a nurse, right? Who is going to get on a plane and leave the US to become poorer doing construction or being a nanny in another country? Teaching abroad can actually pay MORE (I know, I've done it), especially in some parts of Asia. This is a bad example. Also, very few countries will take an American nurse over the tons of nurses waiting for work that are already there. That nurse would have to be highly specialized or own a business.
-So what. What is your issue with nurses?
Also, plenty of middle class people are taking "handouts" now. As the article I provided shows.
So the solution to our economic problem is for a chunk of the country to just leave? Are you serious? You do realize that most countries do not have immigration policies like that of the US, right?
-What do you suggest?
Make sure you let Apples no this in a few months...
-I think you are jealous of Apples' profession.
But you do realize that we aren't talking about people with "professions". We're talking about people with "jobs". Jobs that are unstable, benefit-less, and nearly impossible to build wealth from.
I do okay. I guess that is good old fashion values working at its best. LOL!
This conversation is starting to get a little ridiculous. Let's agree to disagree. I am done.
Last edited by goodlife36; 11-13-2010 at 08:47 PM..
I'm not stereotyping poor people, I'm stereotyping welfare abusers
You've already shown (in this and other unrelated post) that stereotyping is the most complex cognitive ability you're capable of. I won't fault you for being yourself.
But anyone reading this thread will know that you clearly don't know how our social and economic structures work-beyond your inability to get a job . If you think being on welfare for longer than a year is automatically abuse, I will just be frank and call you dense.
i hate it when people call the poor "undesirables". Thats real cold. And the bronx is getting poorer? hmm...poor and living in an affordable house or a nice gentrified neighborhood that you can't afford to live in anymore? hmmmmm
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. You may find work in a convalescent home...
