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This thread has a very narrow foucs. Please discuss Section 8 as it may apply to the 5 Boroughs of New York City. This is not the proper forum for state or national political discussions.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
Yes there are some landlords that refuse to take in Section 8 tenants (rightfully so) no matter how high Section 8 is willing to pay for an apartment. These landlords are unfortunately in the minority.
Usually these landlords own 1 or 2 buildings managed by themselves and family memebers. They usually have some type of sentimental value attached to their buildings with plans on passing it on to the next generation. Hence, they are passionate about the quality of tenants they rent to.
The ABSENTEE landlord who usually owns several buildings and who solely views their buildings as investment vehicles with NO feelings attached to them are typically the ones who want the most for their rentals and rent to Section 8 tenants. Not because they like the quality of tenants Section 8 has to offer but simply because they'll pay much more in rent than a regular non-program tenant. These type of ABSENTEE landlords make up the majority of landlords in the Bronx.
These landlords don't care about the neighborhood and the type of tenants they rent to. All they care about is having positive cashflow at the expense of the building/neighborhood.
They usually hire a property management company to fill their vacancies and handle repairs. These property management companys get paid 6% of the monthly rent roll. So if the monthly rent roll for a building is 80K then the management company gets paid $4,800 a month. The more you can rent an apartment for, the more money the property manager gets. So why not rent to a Section 8 tenants who pays top dollar for an apartment so you (the property manager) can give yourself a raise at the end of the month? See the incentive?
And if you think I'm lying, go to the Bronx section of craigslist (rentals by owner) and simply read the title of the listings and you'll see that the majority of the listings try to cater to Section 8/program people. You'll find more listing soliciting Section 8/program people than listing targeting regular working folks. This is the monster the City has created. Make it financially attract so that landlords will rent to these people.
To add insult to injury, 2 years ago democratic Governor to be Andrew Cuomo introduced a bill which passed that prohibitted landlords from denying tenants because they were on Section 8.
Prior to this bill, a landlord could SPECIFICALLY write on a craigslist ad "NO PROGRAMS ACCEPTED" or "NO SECTION 8 PEOPLE" and it was totally legal. This was done by landlords purposely to deter those type of people from inquiring about their apartments hence, keeping the riff-raff out by preserving as well as reserving your building for only regular working folks.
Now if you write that on your craigslist ad, your post gets flagged and removed and you could possibly get sued as it is now considered "discrimination". NYC is actually the ONLY city in the U.S. that has this stupid law. You can thank democrat Cuomo for that one. If this is a sign for things to come, I'm affraid to see what else he has under his sleeves once he takes office as governor.
Section 8 folks should be placed in the neighborhood of the landlords. It is only fair, isn't it? I went to a rental office to inquire about the process of renting out my home. The first thing he tried to push on me was section 8 tenants."You will get guaranteed rent". I believe the rental offices get 25% commission on this. I gave him a piece of my mind and left. I would never do that to the community I live in. While not every section 8 tenant is bad, I am not willing to chance it. However, many people are doing it without any regard for the community. There is no such thing as a bad neighborhood. It is the people that make it bad.
I will not indicate 'no programs' in my ad. I will be very specific about my qualifications. They will not qualify.
Last edited by goodlife36; 11-07-2010 at 05:10 PM..
The ABSENTEE landlord who usually owns several buildings and who solely views their buildings as investment vehicles with NO feelings attached to them are typically the ones who want the most for their rentals and rent to Section 8 tenants. Not because they like the quality of tenants Section 8 has to offer but simply because they'll pay much more in rent than a regular non-program tenant. These type of ABSENTEE landlords make up the majority of landlords in the Bronx.
These landlords don't care about the neighborhood and the type of tenants they rent to. All they care about is having positive cashflow at the expense of the building/neighborhood.
this is who u should direct your feelings towards...they have more power to destroy the bronx than a few problem tenants do. like i said, i believe landlords should be licensed. there is a huge responsibility that comes with providing people a place to live, and there should be a professional standard set in place for it. i feel the whole real estate business has been allowed to run amok without any policing for too long.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Section 8 folks should be placed in the neighborhood of the landlords. It is only fair, isn't it? I went to a rental office to inquire about the process of renting out my home. The first thing he tried to push on me was section 8 tenants."You will get guaranteed rent". I believe the rental offices get 25% commission on this. I gave him a piece of my mind and left. I would never do that to the community I live in. While not every section 8 tenant is bad, I am not willing to chance it. However, many people are doing it without any regard for the community. There is no such thing as a bad neighborhood. It is the people that make it bad.
I will not indicate 'no programs' in my ad. I will be very specific about my qualifications. They will not qualify.
I agree goodlife. There is no such thing as a bad neighborhood. It's the people who make it bad. But who picks the tenants? LANDLORDS and/or PROPERTY MANAGERS. Ultimately they are the culprits as they have the final say on who they accept as tenants.
One thing I'd like to point out is that the majority of the phone calls or emails a Bronx landlord gets from his craigslist ads are from people on Section 8 or other types of programs like Work Advantage (shelter people) and the HASA program (people with AIDS).
We have some landlords on this board and I'm sure they can confirm this. The best thing to do in this case is to ignore/delete their emails and voice messages. If you happen to pick up the phone and its a person asking if you take programs, tell them YES (so you don't get in trouble) then ask them to give you a contact number where they can be reached and pretend as if you're writing it down and tell them you'll call them back (which you never will).
It's important to know that if a Bronx landlord refuses to rent to program people and wants solely working people as tenants, chances are it may take them longer, like a couple of months or more to rent the apartment simply because it's slim pickings. Low income people in the Bronx out number regular working people. It's a much smaller pool of people to pick from. The idea is to stay true to your beliefs and NOT give in to the temptation of renting to a Section 8 tenant even if they throw money in your face to entice you.
Licensing is not the answer neither is regulation. Besides, how does having a license help a landlord choose a Section 8 tenant over a regular working tenant? No license can do that. It's an individual decision. Usually based on money.
The problem in this case lies in the City artificially inflating the Section 8 rental payments to PURPOSELY entice landlords to rent to a Section 8 tenants.
The City is using money as bait to trick landlords into renting to low income people. But the adverse effect is you price-out the working middle class who are not on any program because they can't compete with those high rent prices. And then you wonder why the middle class is shrinking in NYC...hmmm.
We have some landlords on this board and I'm sure they can confirm this. The best thing to do in this case is to ignore/delete their emails and voice messages. If you happen to pick up the phone and its a person asking if you take programs, tell them YES (so you don't get in trouble) then ask them to give you a contact number where they can be reached and pretend as if you're writing it down and tell them you'll call them back (which you never will).
Licensing is not the answer neither is regulation. Besides, how does having a license help a landlord choose a Section 8 tenant over a regular working tenant? No license can do that. It's an individual decision. Usually based on money.
The problem in this case lies in the City artificially inflating the Section 8 rental payments to PURPOSELY entice landlords to rent to a Section 8 tenants.
The City is using money as bait to trick landlords into renting to low income people. But the adverse effect is you price-out the working middle class who are not on any program because they can't compete with those high rent prices. And then you wonder why the middle class is shrinking in NYC...hmmm.
Tell me about. $1899 could get me in the neighborhood that I want to live in with a 10% downpayment. A working person needs to make roughly $80,000 to pay the same rent a section 8 person can pay.
As someone pointed out earlier,section 8 is actually a federal program and I don't think the rules are set by local authorities either. I believe the local rent subsidies are set according to a formula that is tied to the market rents in a given area.The reason why the guidelines are so high here in NYC is because the rents are so high to begin with.
A payment standard of 1,283/mo for a studio apartment(or 1,543/mo for a 2 br) may seem like way too much for a lot of The Bronx(or Houston for that matter)but they are set there because those figures are probably close to NYC, citywide averages.If the section 8 rents were set below the citywide averages then it would be even worse for The Bronx because The Bronx would then become the ONLY place where section 8 people could possibly live.Most of Manhattan and a big chunk of Brooklyn and Queens are already off limits because the rent standards that are too high for The Bronx are way too low for there.
It's not that the city(or anyone) is purposely trying to steer section 8 people to The Bronx.The problem is that standards are set according to citywide rent averages and The Bronx happens to have the largest supply of below average rents.
The only way to correct this problem(other than to eliminate the program) would be to raise the section 8 standards even higher( to the highest citywide(Manhattan) rents) instead of citywide averages....to make the payments 2,200/mo for a stiudio and 3,000 for a 1 br. Then, lots more people would be eligible and the section 8 people could live anywhere they want in the city and they wouldn't all be piled into just a few areas where the rents happen to be low.Everyone could live in Manhattan if they want.
I will say that the rents are about $200-$300 above market rents for the Bronx (in general). I can imagine that with the economy down, having extra income would make a difference for some Landlords, so I could see it having some effect in the Bronx.
Unfortunately it's like making a deal with the devil for NYC. Although NYC saves money by upping the section 8 payments and getting LLs to take these people because it costs the city more than double to house them. BUT it puts more pressure on working/middle income families who can't compete with the higher rent section 8 tenants, so they leave NYC, and section 8 tenants swarm in and multiply in a domino effect.
As a result, overall it is a negative for NYC, and will just reinforce a city of the haves and the "have-nots"....those that are wealthy, and everyone else on subsidized programs. And it pisses me off.
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