The truth about Harlem, 2010

[SobroGuy]

NYC is in constant change, so if you don't like change, you would never have liked NYC. You would have made the same arguments when the Irish flooded into NYC, when the slums were REAL slums, when the Italians swarmed NYC and the MOB controlled much of the city, you would have despised the Jews, hated all the colored folks in the 50s and 60s, hated the destruction and economic collapse of the 70s, hated the outrageous crime of the 90s, and today you hate the outrageous cost of living.

You would have found plenty of reasons to hate NYC, because it is all about change. It may soon be all rich and poor with nothing in the middle, and you clearly hate that too. If you believe NYC has lost its soul, you never knew NYC and still don't. And for the record, the immigrants are what made and make NYC great, the never ending opportunity is what makes NYC great, the ability for the poor to become middle class or higher is what makes NYC great, and none of that has changed. The middle class has always been leaving NYC and it isn't anything new...however there is a new brown and black middle class and that's AOK and just as good as any other middle class before.

NYC is rising, just not the way you expect. SURPRISE! Nobody knows how NYC will evolve and that's part of what makes this city great. And NYC has been counted out more times than I can count, but it always comes back and is on the rise..you just don't like where you THINK it's going!

[KatieMarie10]

That is your opinion and that is fine, I respect that. But I know I am not alone in what I am complaining about. I don't really think there is much of a middle class there anymore whether it's black/brown/white or whatever. It's a polite way more or less of saying 'working poor'. It is much more comfortably phrased that way. I have known NYC ever since I was a kid in the early 80s. I am no stranger to its history even though I do not live there. I have been visiting since I was in my Huggies. Its problems are the same problems we are experiencing as a nation, especially in terms of a collapsing middle class. I don't point the finger just on NYC for that, however, it seems far more pronounced there than anywhere else I've been and I have literally been to 49 of all 50 states. The lower classes have far less opportunity than ever in times past. And when there were REAL slums, there still was a place better than that for ordinary people not strung out on drugs and crime where they felt safe to rest and pay normal rents. There was a real sense you could rise up. I feel now the only real sense is that you have a chance of rising from 'working poor' to 'working lower/middle class'. Little more than that is a spin on the roulette wheel, and the odds speak for themselves. It will change in a way you and I cannot predict, you are right. You say that makes it great. To me it means zero. You could say that about anywhere.

[robwill]

I used to live in a very small town at the end of Cape Cod. One winter we had 2 murders making us the murder capital of the USA for that year. Like I said it was a very small town. It is all relative.

[ErnestScaredStupid]

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Moving to NYC in May from the St. Louis area, and looking at this map makes me think people's fears of Harlem are indeed overblown:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...and-frisk.html

My hometown, an Illinois suburb of STL (not East St. Louis) had a 7.92 violent crime rate in 2008, which appears to be on par with the 32nd precinct -- Central Harlem above 129th street. People scared of Harlem should check out North St. Louis and East St. Louis. Talk about urban decay. There are buildings that have been abandoned so long, the windows fell in on themselves.

And I'm not from what I would consider to be a scary town. Some people would ... small-minded people who are scared of the ~30% black population. The crime is pretty compartmentalized in certain parts of town and avoiding it is about as simple as not getting involved in drugs or gangs.

The one concession I'd make is that it would be a lot harder here for someone to get held up on a street corner since everyone drives everywhere. And the area is 16 square miles, so it's easier to be geographically distant from the crime epicenters.

[joely]

Originally Posted by KatieMarie10

What makes you think that my statement had anything to do with race? It was the whole atmosphere that had an unsettling feeling to it- the rundown buildings fenced in barbed wire, homeless people of all colors passed out drunk on the sides of stores and churches, shady street characters, etc. Where I live isn't utopia either BTW. And I think your city DOES need people like me badly- seeing as we make up the tax base and it seems things are quite strapped at the moment, to put it mildly. Not that I would. Too far left, too high a tax burden, too many roaches/bedbugs/rats/you-name-it. Depressing weather, nasty people, ridiculous gun control laws and violations of 4th amendment rights. Corruption everywhere, people begging for money a half dozen times a day, $12 for a pack of smokes. Guys are players or gay/bi, landlords that seem to reject anyone with a dog (even if it's 2 pounds lol), stench, filth, noise wherever you go. Sounds like a great deal! Wait, let me get my checkbook ready so I can shell out $1200 to live in a crap apartment in the ghetto next to PJ and section 8 people while they pay next to nothing and pretend to look for work. All so my paycheck can go to them. Yes, you can have it all and keep it!

Katie, you obviously have made the right decision for you and for NYC not to move here. Right has prevailed, and as a NY'er, I'm glad.

[Infamous92]

Originally Posted by overdose

you would have thought

Lol.

[overdose]

Originally Posted by joely

Katie, you obviously have made the right decision for you and for NYC not to move here. Right has prevailed, and as a NY'er, I'm glad.

lol.