St. James Park (Bronx), late 1960s (Webster, Viola: hotels, houses, luxury)

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Are you people out of your minds? Are you actually blaming people of color for "ruining your paradise"..as if it ever existed? Life in the Bronx and NYC pre-brown folks was all dancing, freedom, crime-free, everyone was classy, educated, sophisticated and perfect....until those evil brown and black folks showed up and ruined everything like they always do right?

WOW...talk about rewriting history! Does anyone have any idea what the reality was in NYC in those "paradise" days in the Bronx? It was in fact known as the "Wild West" (and still is) because of the drunken and unruly people which filled the borough..the Irish (of course) made sure to keep true to the slums from which they came from....the Jews came from the same slums and were at one point 75% of the borough.

Corruption and crime were EPIC everywhere, from the police to politicians at this time...and the Mob oversaw much of the city and infiltrated government. There were gangs of youth for everything: buildings, schools, blocks, neighborhoods, racially/ethnically....you name it there was a gang for it and they spent their free time fighting eachother..b/c that's just what you did.

The fond memories you have as a child are selective, and through the eyes of children. The brown and black folks that showed up were there for the same reason everyone else was..to improve their lives. They came with hopes and dreams, and were met with nothing more than segregation, anger and violence....NOT the other way around.

Ultimately the policies that this city instituted at that time, coupled with the movement out of cities to suburbs and the collapse of the manufacturing sector/economy is what sunk the city and these neighborhoods, NOT the brown and black people moving in to do what everyone goes to NYC for: improve their lives and children's lives.

So please, stop rewriting history or blaming the victims here for the city's problems. If you think brown and black people are the cause of the non-existent utopia that was the Bronx, you are not only living in a fantasy land, but you know nothing of the actual history of the Bronx or NYC for that matter.

I take it you are also busy blaming the black and brown folks for the collapse of the global economy too...all those welfare mothers are busting city budgets and we can't afford it right? Let's just ignore the bankers and wall st for stealing all the money, crippling the global economy, skyrocketing unemployment, and causing the bankrupt city governments in the first place. Just keep your eye on that brown guy, while the white guys steal your retirement accounts, equity from your homes, fleece the stock market, and leave everyone broke.....yup...keep your eye on that welfare mom. Good job! Hopefully you can learn to peel back the onion and understand what is really happening in NYC, and what has happened, instead of making dumb comments.

Now stick to topic before I have to school you some more.

Does Sobro stand for soul brother? Just wondering.

Irish drunks, man you are the stereotype dude, not me. I am on topic; it’s about St. James Park/Fordham Road- the area I GREW UP in, not you (unless you own a time machine). Yes, I was a kid, but the view I expressed is repeated not only on this board, but my OLDER relatives. They were living as adults and they too saw the destruction. I don’t blame anyone for being different; it’s the behavior that offends. I wonder, does Poe Park have dances like that today? Likely not.

Man, you have a problem with people who don’t share your semi-socialist view of the world. I read that the Bronx was 2/3rds white in 1950, and by 1970 it was 2/3rds minority. So many of the people I knew in the Bronx would have loved to stay there but it became UNSAFE. Not because of Robert Moses, not because of the loss of blue collar jobs, but because of the brown tide who did not share our values and carried crime, uncivil behavior, and other ills. Why could they not stay in their communities make them secure/decent/safe and profitable so that businesses would not be run out by rampart shoplifting and other ills? You must wear blinders.

Sobro, you need to wake up and admit the culpability of the minorities in making the Bronx the still recovering war zone it is and the liberals that created an attractive welfare state that facilitated the tragedy the borough is suffering from.

The culture must change if it is to make lives better for all the people in the Bronx. Good neighbors are good neighbors-it does not matter the color, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. The folks moving in were not good neighbors.
Ever see the 1950’s movie, “Marty” staring Earnest Borgnine? Watch it and LEARN, because that was my Bronx. Or perhaps it’s just revisionism….right.

[SobroGuy]

You are asking me to open my mind and heart...it's always been open...we still live here. I am asking you to read a book and learn your history. Sorry dude..but just b/c your mom and dad tell you brown and black people ruined the world..don't make it true.

Cue "The more you know" music....

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

You are asking me to open my mind and heart...it's always been open...we still live here. I am asking you to read a book and learn your history. Sorry dude..but just b/c your mom and dad tell you brown and black people ruined the world..don't make it true.

Cue "The more you know" music....

I most certainly know more history than you. And I am open minded--but maintain high standards for behavior. I noted in your comments that you did not address uncivil behavior. That was/is the crux of the problem. Every society has corruption and problems, society is human.

Coporate greed, removal of checks and balances on banks and mortgages, outsourcing, etc. done by those in big business that was facilitated by BOTH sides of the isle has greatly harmed not just the Bronx, but the US as a whole. The midde class has been assaulted from both ends, the right and left. Look at the French Revolution. If we don't fix our house, it will come down.

In looking at several posts on this board, you seem to take great exception to white people talking about the good old days--like they are making it up and that they 'just don't get it'. Next you will say its a conspiracy to believe that the Bronx was better then.

You are hard line Multi-Culturalist who has no room to think about other points of view as being valid unless it embraces your ideals. Do you own a little Red Book?

In almost any metric, the Bronx was better in 1950 than now.

I note that you still live in the Bronx, perhaps you need to do some traveling to open your eyes. Even the Socialists in the Coop realized eventually that Socialism and Communism does not work.

[SobroGuy]

I am not at all hard-line anything..except knowledge. You are welcome to blame colored folks for ruining a paradise that never existed....but you are only blaming just another victimized group while the real culprits walk away....with all the money and your fantasy-Utopian Bronx too.

Nowhere did I mention Socialism and Communism...wow...I cannot fathom the things that have poisoned your brain...so much so that somehow you are alleging I am a hard-line Multiculturalist, Socialist and Communist based on my comments....holy smokes!

I hope one day you learn that the poor welfare mother was not the culprit in busting our government budgets and sunk the global economy....blaming the black man for moving into the neighborhood is not the reason why blocks of home went into foreclosure (then or now), and while you are busy blaming colored folks for ruining the world, the actual culprits who HAVE AND ARE ruining the world are draining the equity from your home, stealing your retirement funds, and raping our American lifestyle and leaving it for dead.

All while they laugh at you (and the many people like you) for blaming the black man for America's problems...gotta love it!

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

I am not at all hard-line anything..except knowledge. You are welcome to blame colored folks for ruining a paradise that never existed....but you are only blaming just another victimized group while the real culprits walk away....with all the money and your fantasy-Utopian Bronx too.

Nowhere did I mention Socialism and Communism...wow...I cannot fathom the things that have poisoned your brain...so much so that somehow you are alleging I am a hard-line Multiculturalist, Socialist and Communist based on my comments....holy smokes!

I hope one day you learn that the poor welfare mother was not the culprit in busting our government budgets and sunk the global economy....blaming the black man for moving into the neighborhood is not the reason why blocks of home went into foreclosure (then or now), and while you are busy blaming colored folks for ruining the world, the actual culprits who HAVE AND ARE ruining the world are draining the equity from your home, stealing your retirement funds, and raping our American lifestyle and leaving it for dead.

All while they laugh at you (and the many people like you) for blaming the black man for America's problems...gotta love it!

Sobro,

You have an amazing way of marginalizing your own prejudices which are quite apparent in your posts. I am not blaming 'black people'; it's the criminal/antisocial behavior and accompanying toxic subculture that hamstrings them from achivement and for being good neighbors.

I know you think this sounds scary (and unlikely) but I have many minority friends. Gee, wow, a white guy has black and hispanic friends...the end of the world. Privately some of my buddies acknowledge that black society shares some reponsiblity for the state of the black subnation in our nation. My pal Desmond has vowed to be a 'real Dad', not a "walk away one" like many of his peers are. He says what Bill Cosby says is the real deal.

Can you tell me what happened to Detroit, MI? The city is a wilderness...and not because of white people.

Sobro, you trouble me with your selective memory and strange interpertation of economic data. Your passive/aggressive responses don't add much credence to your position either.

Next thing you will say is that the picture I submitted on dancing in Poe Park was photo shopped. Or, that I took part in Watergate, helped to shoot Regan, voted against Obama (I voted for change--but it seems that it has not happened), or perhaps steal girl scout cookies in Co-Op city.

Just because its Brown does not mean it's right. Sheesh.

[SobroGuy]

I have only offered the truth, but you have already chosen the blue pill...nothing else to say here.

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

I have only offered the truth, but you have already chosen the blue pill...nothing else to say here.

Please, don't let facts and reality get in the way of your world view...

You come across as an Urban Cheerleader for public housing and multiculturalism and deny the past before the early 1970s was better. NO one on this post has said it was perfect. But it got worse as it grew more diverse.

I think all of us are happy there is some positive news about the Bronx. But don't disect my words to accomadate your skewed view.

As the son of an Irish-Italian parents I am proud to have called the Bronx my home and place I was raised.

I am going to search the City Forum database to see if you have commented in other areas, just to see if you are more open minded. Perhaps you just have a bee in your bonnet on this topic. I liked the Fordham Road area and the places around it. I don't care for them now.

[whitlock]

Originally Posted by Webster Ave Guy

Found this. Wow.

Children are children.

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

I have only offered the truth, but you have already chosen the blue pill...nothing else to say here.

Bronx leads all boroughs on poverty - Topix

Why? Oh yes, it's a white conspiracy. Hey, I know, try critical thinking!

Perhaps that will allow you to see past your own prejudices and inability to accept facts.

[Webster Ave Guy]

Originally Posted by whitlock

Children are children.

Beautiful! God bless 'em!