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Exactly right and this is why as a native Bronxite I'm in favor and fully support GENTRIFICATION in the Bronx. As offensive as it may sound, the Bronx's downfall was caused by the influx of Black people and puerto ricans with no or little education moving into the Bronx, scaring the long-time desirable and peaceful residents away. The blacks and latinos came storming in with their culture, lifestyle and riff raff and ruined the Bronx for good. Fast forward 40+ years later and the decay and influence black people and latinos had on the Bronx still plagues the borough. Its a sh** hole now, thanks to black people and latinos.
So yes, I'm all for gentrification because there are way too many blacks and latinos living in the Bronx that contribute to its stigma by the way they conduct themselves. If you're black or latino and feel offend by my comments...oh well. Too bad. The truth hurts don't it?
How about you do an experiment with your children: make sure one has no access to education, sexually, mentally and physcially abuse that child and let the other child get the best education with everything life have to offer with the best treatment that parents can offer. Then see which ones future generations become more susceptible to leading violent disorderly lives. Yes even after HUNDREDS OF YEARS THAT BLACK PEOPLE SUFFERED THESE THINGS AND MORE; CAN YOU IMAGINE? GENERATION AFTER ANOTHER THIS WAS A CYCLE THAT ENDED ONLY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO BUT THEY WERE STILL TREATED AS ANIMALS. HUMAN BEINGS WITH NO RIGHTS. SO LETS FAST FORWARD TO TODAY YET WE OVER CAME ALL OF THIS BLACK PEOPLE OF TODAY STILL STRUGGLE WITH THEIR OWN IMAGE, THEY HATE THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY WERE HATED BEFORE GIVEN A CHANCE. FOR SO MANY GENERATIONS OF SLAVERY IT WILL TAKE MANY MORE GENERATIONS TO ABOLISH THAT HATRED OF SELF MENTALITY. THATS WHAT YOUR PEOPLE DID THATS THE BLOOD THAT WILL STAIN YOUR GENERATIONS NOT OURS. FOR YOU TO FEEL ITS OK TO GENICIDE ANOTHER YOU JUST PROVE TO SO MANY OTHER NATIONALITIES AND PEOPLE ALIKE THAT YOUR KIND OF PREDATORILY THINKING FROM SO LONG AGO STILL EXISTS TODAY. I Don't know how you sleep at night with such a MURDEROUS and HATEFUL MIND. A HIDIOUS REFLECTION IS WHAT YOU MUST ONLY SEE IN THE MIRROR FOR YOU TO BE CAPABLE OF EMBRACING SUCH DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR THAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH UNTIL YOU DIE I JUST HOPE FOR YOUR OWN SAKE YOU LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF AND ALL HUMAN BEINGS THAT THE MOST HIGH GOD CREATED IN HIS OWN IMAGE. THE TRUTH IS YOUR PARENTS LIED TO YOU AND TOLD YOU IT WAS THE BLACKS AND HISPANICS FAULT BUT REALLY IT WAS YOUR ANCESTORS WHO VIOLATED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS; WHICH THEIR GENERATIONS SHOULD BE PAYING FOR TODAY. ITS THE MINIORITES WHO WERE WILLING TO FORGIVE AND TRY TO BELIEVE IN A BETTER TOMORROW THE SAME ONES YOU CALL "UNCIVIL"..YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHO DESERVES TO DIE BECAUSE YOUR PEOPLE RAPED AND KILLED SO MANY YOU SHOULD BE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND IT STILL WON'T MAKE UP FOR ALL THE MURDERS YOUR ANCESTORS COMMITTED. YA BUM!
How about you do an experiment with your children: make sure one has no access to education, sexually, mentally and physcially abuse that child and let the other child get the best education with everything life have to offer with the best treatment that parents can offer. Then see which ones future generations become more susceptible to leading violent disorderly lives. Yes even after HUNDREDS OF YEARS THAT BLACK PEOPLE SUFFERED THESE THINGS AND MORE; CAN YOU IMAGINE? GENERATION AFTER ANOTHER THIS WAS A CYCLE THAT ENDED ONLY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO BUT THEY WERE STILL TREATED AS ANIMALS. HUMAN BEINGS WITH NO RIGHTS. SO LETS FAST FORWARD TO TODAY YET WE OVER CAME ALL OF THIS BLACK PEOPLE OF TODAY STILL STRUGGLE WITH THEIR OWN IMAGE, THEY HATE THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY WERE HATED BEFORE GIVEN A CHANCE. FOR SO MANY GENERATIONS OF SLAVERY IT WILL TAKE MANY MORE GENERATIONS TO ABOLISH THAT HATRED OF SELF MENTALITY. THATS WHAT YOUR PEOPLE DID THATS THE BLOOD THAT WILL STAIN YOUR GENERATIONS NOT OURS. FOR YOU TO FEEL ITS OK TO GENICIDE ANOTHER YOU JUST PROVE TO SO MANY OTHER NATIONALITIES AND PEOPLE ALIKE THAT YOUR KIND OF PREDATORILY THINKING FROM SO LONG AGO STILL EXISTS TODAY. I Don't know how you sleep at night with such a MURDEROUS and HATEFUL MIND. A HIDIOUS REFLECTION IS WHAT YOU MUST ONLY SEE IN THE MIRROR FOR YOU TO BE CAPABLE OF EMBRACING SUCH DISGUSTING BEHAVIOR THAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH UNTIL YOU DIE I JUST HOPE FOR YOUR OWN SAKE YOU LEARN TO LOVE YOURSELF AND ALL HUMAN BEINGS THAT THE MOST HIGH GOD CREATED IN HIS OWN IMAGE. THE TRUTH IS YOUR PARENTS LIED TO YOU AND TOLD YOU IT WAS THE BLACKS AND HISPANICS FAULT BUT REALLY IT WAS YOUR ANCESTORS WHO VIOLATED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS; WHICH THEIR GENERATIONS SHOULD BE PAYING FOR TODAY. ITS THE MINIORITES WHO WERE WILLING TO FORGIVE AND TRY TO BELIEVE IN A BETTER TOMORROW THE SAME ONES YOU CALL "UNCIVIL"..YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHO DESERVES TO DIE BECAUSE YOUR PEOPLE RAPED AND KILLED SO MANY YOU SHOULD BE IN JAIL RIGHT NOW WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND IT STILL WON'T MAKE UP FOR ALL THE MURDERS YOUR ANCESTORS COMMITTED. YA BUM!
Hey, I know it's easy to get mad (the tool Sobro does that to me) but dialogue should be factual and not emotional.
If you look at History, not only black people in our nation was slaves. White people were slaves for centuries in Europe, both the Greeks and Romans had slaves. Of course, their masters were white too. In Africa, many blacks were slaves of blacks, and then later Europeans. Slavery is a sorry facet of many cultures. It's a horrible institution.
I think what really harms our black culture is the lack of Dads in families. Right now, 70% of all black children born in the US are illegitimate. The impregnator enjoys the sex, but leaves the poor woman with the burden of raising the children. If it were not for the armies of fellow aunties that provide support and assistance, things would be much worse. Boys without male role models almost always do less well than boys with them. This is a proven fact. I think if Black women chose to empower themselves and said, "enough", that would help solve the problem. I know, easier said then done, but this dynamic needs to change.
I agree that the lack of Fathers in the home is a problem, but don't you agree that is a symptom of the larger problem? Having 1/3 of the male black population incarcerated at some time in their lives is a symptom of the larger problem also. And how about the lack of educational attainment of young black males? A symptom of the problem.
Seems like the black male is under attack..wouldn't you say? And all of these symptoms are the results of this attack. So yes I agree that a "solution" would be more Father's in the home..but you can't have that until you address the underlying problem. When the criminalization and subjugation of the population stops, ONLY THEN will you see improvements in the community, and the reduction of the symptoms.
I agree that the lack of Fathers in the home is a problem, but don't you agree that is a symptom of the larger problem? Having 1/3 of the male black population incarcerated at some time in their lives is a symptom of the larger problem also. And how about the lack of educational attainment of young black males? A symptom of the problem.
Seems like the black male is under attack..wouldn't you say? And all of these symptoms are the results of this attack. So yes I agree that a "solution" would be more Father's in the home..but you can't have that until you address the underlying problem. When the criminalization and subjugation of the population stops, ONLY THEN will you see improvements in the community, and the reduction of the symptoms.
I don't believe anyone would argue that Black men in our nation are in a bad situation.
Some is of their own making, some is caused by flawed liberal policies that made the black man superfluous to the economic survival of the black family by overly generous welfare state benefits--taking away responsibility for providing for the children, lack of decent role models in the family and media (gee, look at Snoop Dogg's family on cable and anyone would cringe, or a Hip Hop video for that matter), a subculture that focuses on athletic superstars rather than black professionals, black parents not demanding high standards in public schools, etc. all make it harder 'making it in America.
Many are in jail because they had no Dad at home to steer them the right way. Young men need a Dad to learn how to be good men...its that simple.
Until Black Men become Family Men, our poor black children cannot break out of this cycle! Fathers are the FUTURE.
At some point, you have become responsible for you.
I would say very little is of their own making, as they continue to be subjugated to this day. You are claiming liberal policies, lack of decent role models, subculture focused on athletic superstars, many in jail...and on and on...all symptoms of the problem.
I agree at some point you have to take responsibility for you, but how can you when you are not allowed to? Take responsibility for you, and stay out of jail right? But how do you do that when you deal with this constantly: Cop accused in $900G theft rap is busted for tampering with witness And these are the people who are paid to serve and protect you!!!!!!!
Demand higher standards in public schools you say? Who hasn't been doing that? A dysfunctional subculture of rappers and athletes? Kinda like our dysfunctional subculture that says white = good, black = bad? How does a black person take responsibility for that? These issues here are much bigger than the BS "take responsibility for you"...as if we live in a vacuum and have totaly control of everything in our lives...we don't.
Until America treats people equally, we will continue to have these problems...it isn't about blacks, it is about the American culture which is based on subjugation and exploitation.
It made me quite sad to read some of the posts in another Bronx thread, and to also read that St. James Park has been overtaken by gangs. I have nothing but fond memories of the park. Growing up in the mid to late 60s, the park was a beautiful place where families gathered, kids went sledding on snowy days and toddlers played in the sandboxes. During the holiday season, you could always count on the holiday tree going up in the park. I loved crossing the park for the purpose of shopping at Alexanders on Fordham Rd. The toy section on the third floor was my favorite place to visit. Another fond memory is of going to Phil's candy store (news stand), on the corner of Kingsbridge Rd. and Creston Ave. to fill a brown paper bag with penny candy. Boy, do I feel old now! I also remember my parents keeping an account at the local grocery store, also on Jerome Ave. across from the Park. The guy would tally our bill on the bag itself using a pencil he kept behind his ear, then he would note the amount in one of those black and white marbled school composition notebooks. At the end of the month, my dad would pay what we owed. It was basically an honor system. If I recall, the owner's name was George, and he had a young son named Billy.
I lived directly across the street from the park on Jerome Ave., and back then, that particular Bronx neighborhood was very much family oriented and had that true sense of community. To this day, I can't believe that young mothers would leave their babies strapped in their strollers in the vestibule when visiting the Associated Supermarket for groceries. What trust...or better yet, what ignorance. Were times safer back then? Crime was probably something that wasn't reported back then as much.
Approximately 2 years ago, I made a trip back to my old stomping grounds with my younger brother. I could not believe the deterioration that had occurred since we left the area. The streets were filthy with litter. As we walked into the park, we continuously had to watch our steps to avoid stepping on dog feces that was all over the place. Pretty gross. The entrance to our building showed extreme signs of wear and gross neglect by the landlord. In a nutshell, the place resembled more of a war devastated zone than the area I knew and loved as a kid.
I recently keep hearing that the Bronx will once again make a resurgence. I sincerely hope this happens.
All of this sounds magical I wish I could have grown up in this time!
Growing up in the Bronx you just don't have these fond memories anymore. St.James, Poe, Devoe, Webster are just horrible today. Gangs rule the place, people are always smoking pot, drug dealing is always going on. Good kids cant step in the park without risking being robbed or ganged up on and jumped.
All of this sounds magical I wish I could have grown up in this time!
Growing up in the Bronx you just don't have these fond memories anymore. St.James, Poe, Devoe, Webster are just horrible today. Gangs rule the place, people are always smoking pot, drug dealing is always going on. Good kids cant step in the park without risking being robbed or ganged up on and jumped.
you are right! webter sucks ik sorry about the typos just got s punch on my right eye cant type
It is magical...because it is a fairy tale and did not exist. Looking through the eyes of the child the whole world seems perfect, and there are no problems. The reality is there was never a time when life was perfect anywhere in NYC, in fact it was a much scarier place than people understand, or will admit to.
Whitlock I didn't mean to punch you in the eye really, just stop saying dumb stuff.
It is magical...because it is a fairy tale and did not exist. Looking through the eyes of the child the whole world seems perfect, and there are no problems. The reality is there was never a time when life was perfect anywhere in NYC, in fact it was a much scarier place than people understand, or will admit to.
Whitlock I didn't mean to punch you in the eye really, just stop saying dumb stuff.
Sobro,
Something about glass houses....
Anyway, would you agree that the Bronx was better before Mayor Lindsey's adminstration? In that the borough enjoyed larger tax rolls, less crime by a significant margin, schools were safer, less people on public assistance, etc? Or would you argue these facts. I am simply curious.
There is an entertaining website called "Back in the Bronx" which shares many stories (hopefully my pal Sobro won't call it a conspiracy) of former Bronx residents who recall with fondness of the 'good old days.' There are some excellent photos too boot.
My simple issue is this: I can also recall the good 'ol days of the Bronx, where families were happy, enjoying life, we played outside without worry of kidnapping or getting shot, neighbors looked out for neighbors, etc....in the 1980s. Weird huh? Does that mean it was an idyllic paradise? Heck no...but it's all relative and through tainted eyes, fuzzy memories, and romatincized selective memory. For every wonderful memory about the Bronx you have pre 1970, I can give you one post 1970..and we would both be using our selective memory.
As for your specific question, it really depends. Do you believe NYC and our society overall was a better place pre 1970? Let's see a few examples of the wonderful place that was NYC pre 1970:
The Mob controlling substantial parts of our city, including infecting out political system, corrupting elected officials, and having a "lock" on crime in NYC.
We had corruption at epic proportions across the city, including the Police Force.
We had massive inequality and outright segregation/violence not just based on race, but women also were second class citizens. You do realize women couldn't even attend IVY League schools until the 70s right?
Interacial marriage was illegal.
And if you want to go further back:
The slums of the early 1900s make the housing projects today look like 5 star luxury hotels.
Diseases and plagues swept through the city periodically killing and sickening thousands at a time.
Violence and thuggery was the norm, with the Police routinely clubbing and beating residents for the most minor offenses. The Paddy Wagon was so called because it was a term referring to the Irish.
There was a gang for everything: Your block, your school, your building, your friends, your street, your neighborhood, by race, and on and on....gangs and street fighting were simply a right of passage.
But none of that matters, because kids played in parks and smiled, you walked "safely" to and from school, people dressed "properly", and threw garbage out in garbage cans (in general). So to you...and those who like to fantasize about a reality that never existed, those are the only things that matter.
IMO, it was a fundamental change in 1970 in our society which many people did not agree with, and had little to do with a single person (Mayor or anyone). The Bronx (and the city overall) on many levels became an even more dysfunctional place than it already was, and the city's response to the changes made things worse, not better. Yes more people were on welfare, yes crime SEEMED to escalate, and it all SEEMED to coincide with the influx of all the brown and black people...so clearly it was their fault..right?
You are welcome to think fondly of the borough that never was, as I do the same thing, but it doesn't change the reality that the Bronx has always been the "Wild West" long before 1970.
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Be Civil, Please?
