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Old 11-18-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Historic Downtown Jersey City
2,707 posts, read 4,868,274 times
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In most cities that have subway systems, the system extends beyond city limits, sometimes extensively.

My question is, why doesn't New York's system already do this?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,336 posts, read 13,316,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makossa View Post
Fred, I'm not too sure you are totally correct about it no longer be considered an 'urban transportation system'. Unless it's because of crossing state lines? But, PATH crosses state lines and I'm pretty sure they are not under FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) jurisdiction. Many cities do have rail transit cross over in to the suburbs, a good example of this is Chicago where many lines go deep in to suburbia and it's still recognized as the "CTA".

I had 37 years with the RR and I can tell you no one was under any kind of Federal pay scale. They are not federal employees. In fact, as far as pay scale, we couldn't touch the MTA unions as far as pay, benefits and contracts. If that were true, that the current MTA unions would have to disband and come under main line RR unions it would actually save the MTA money.

I agree though, the politics involved in extending to NJ will definitely prohibit it from happening.
The PATH is considered a Railroad since it shares tracks with Freight in Jersey City and Kearny. So it can cross state lines , and its owned by the PA which controls both states making it easier to build into NY or NJ. The MTA is to big a system to leave NYC , and they have more important projects in NYC to complete and build. Like the SI / Jersey network which would be the PATH and MTA and extended a few lines into Queens. You cannot compare other systems to NYC , its unique to the city.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,895,337 times
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see this

Port Authority Trans-Hudson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

note, the feds can give waivers.

PATCO, which runs the interstate Lindonwold line (philly to south Jersey) is apparently regulated by FTA, not FRA, and is considered a transit system.

The issue is thus not interstate status, but that PATH (like SI Rapid Transit) run/ran on former Railroad properties.

I do not see why an MTA extension would be treated like a RR, rather than like the Lindenwold line.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,895,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
You cannot compare other systems to NYC , its unique to the city.
In terms of substantive management issues, perhaps.

In terms of federal laws and regs (which is the case people were making above) NYC is just like anywhere else.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,534 posts, read 11,081,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyc_37 View Post
In most cities that have subway systems, the system extends beyond city limits, sometimes extensively.

My question is, why doesn't New York's system already do this?
I think the answer to this( and it might also be the answer to the overriding question) is that there are still 2 separate legal entities involved.The NYC subway system is still run by the New York City Transit Authority.
Although all of the separate transit systems( NYCTA,LIRR,Metro North,Staten Island Transit) operate under the umbrella of the MTA they have their own identities.
And the MTA is a New York State authority controlled by the governor of New York.
New York City's subways end(literally in many cases) at the city line.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
2,790 posts, read 2,431,146 times
Reputation: 5108
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
see this

Port Authority Trans-Hudson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

note, the feds can give waivers.

PATCO, which runs the interstate Lindonwold line (philly to south Jersey) is apparently regulated by FTA, not FRA, and is considered a transit system.

The issue is thus not interstate status, but that PATH (like SI Rapid Transit) run/ran on former Railroad properties.

I do not see why an MTA extension would be treated like a RR, rather than like the Lindenwold line.
Thanks, I didn't realize this about PATH.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,060 posts, read 19,419,919 times
Reputation: 10112
Totally aside from all the politics and legislative issues, there's a nagging little fact called practicality. The #7 line is already the most overburdened in the system. If there's one thing that line doesn't need, it's an extension that would put a few thousand more people on those trains! It's already running on a two-minute headway; there's not much wiggle room to put more trains on the #7 line.

Also, an extension to New Jersey might have been more feasible if it was just going to go due west beneath 42 Street. But it's not; there's going to be an extension taking the #7 line to the Javits Center--meaning that it will turn south along 11 Avenue.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,534 posts, read 11,081,958 times
Reputation: 4086
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
see this

Port Authority Trans-Hudson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

note, the feds can give waivers.

PATCO, which runs the interstate Lindonwold line (philly to south Jersey) is apparently regulated by FTA, not FRA, and is considered a transit system.

The issue is thus not interstate status, but that PATH (like SI Rapid Transit) run/ran on former Railroad properties.

I do not see why an MTA extension would be treated like a RR, rather than like the Lindenwold line.
The 5 train also operates along a former railroad line in The Bronx.All the stops North of 180th St are on the old New York,Westchester and Boston Railroad line and were taken over when the railroad went bankrupt in the 1930's.
There might be other NYC subways operating on old railroad lines as well.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,895,337 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Totally aside from all the politics and legislative issues, there's a nagging little fact called practicality. The #7 line is already the most overburdened in the system. If there's one thing that line doesn't need, it's an extension that would put a few thousand more people on those trains! It's already running on a two-minute headway; there's not much wiggle room to put more trains on the #7 line.
are the trains crowded east bound in the AM, and west bound in the PM, presumably the directions most NJ commuters would be riding?
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: You want kimchi with that?
8,479 posts, read 5,895,337 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
The 5 train also operates along a former railroad line in The Bronx.All the stops North of 180th St are on the old New York,Westchester and Boston Railroad line and were taken over when the railroad went bankrupt in the 1930's.
There might be other NYC subways operating on old railroad lines as well.

I am not sure the status of the NY,W and BR. It may be because the IRT was already operating as a non-RR before it took the line, compared to the H&M which was not.
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