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Old 05-31-2011, 01:33 PM
 
Location: UWS
140 posts, read 268,952 times
Reputation: 100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by el77 View Post
... Latino is a race.
What an ignorant post. Latin Americans can be of any race. In fact, I know Latin Americans who are white, black, native Americans, East Asians, Southern Asians, and any mixture of the above.

In addition to the above, even within the same country there are huge variations. For example, some Colombians come from the Caribbean region of the country and thus have a similar culture to that of the other Hispanic Caribbean countries. However, Colombians in the Andean region, who comprise the majority of the country, have a cultural background that more closely resembles that of Spain - although with huge variations as well.

The same could be said of many other countries. There are some exceptions too. For example, Argentina is made up mostly of European immigrants - 80% of which came from Spain and Italy. Only a very small percentage of the country has native American ancestry, and there are no blacks at all.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizarrony View Post
What an ignorant post. Latin Americans can be of any race. In fact, I know Latin Americans who are white, black, native Americans, East Asians, Southern Asians, and any mixture of the above.

In addition to the above, even within the same country there are huge variations. For example, some Colombians come from the Caribbean region of the country and thus have a similar culture to that of the other Hispanic Caribbean countries. However, Colombians in the Andean region, who comprise the majority of the country, have a cultural background that more closely resembles that of Spain - although with huge variations as well.

The same could be said of many other countries. There are some exceptions too. For example, Argentina is made up mostly of European immigrants - 80% of which came from Spain and Italy. Only a very small percentage of the country has native American ancestry, and there are no blacks at all.
Not true at all.


YouTube - ‪Afroargentinos Documentary short clip (No Subtitles)‬‏


YouTube - ‪Soy afroargentino/a‬‏
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Bronx NY
337 posts, read 968,630 times
Reputation: 167
I'm through with this. I have proved my point.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: UWS
140 posts, read 268,952 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Not true at all.
I couldn't see the youtube videos above so I can't comment on them.

Blacks in Argentina are an aberration. There probably are some blacks - just like there are some Mexican blacks; but you will not see them very often, and whatever their culture, it isn't considered mainstream Argentinian culture.

In fact, when northern South American soccer teams would visit Argentina in the early 90s, black players would routinely be stopped in the streets by people who had never seen a black person before.

I've been to Buenos Aires and Bariloche a couple of times and don't remember seeing any blacks. So, yes, there probably are Afroargentinians out there, but not nearly enough as to effect mainstream Argentina.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizarrony View Post
I couldn't see the youtube videos above so I can't comment on them.

Blacks in Argentina are an aberration. There probably are some blacks - just like there are some Mexican blacks; but you will not see them very often, and whatever their culture, it isn't considered mainstream Argentinian culture.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050402125.html

Aberration? That's a very strange way to describe a population. Anyway, yes, the Afro-Argentine population has declined to almost nothing, but there IS still a population. And there have been, even recently, Afro-Argentine soccer players, such as Hector "Chocolate" Baley, who played in the 80s. There are also figures such as reggae singer Fidel Nadal.

Argentina received many thousands of African slaves. The tango - at least the word - is of African origin, as are mucama (young girl, generic word for maid) and candombe (dance). Argentines used to eat, or still eat, an African stew called mazamorra, and also chinchulines (chitlins)!

Quote:
I've been to Buenos Aires and Bariloche a couple of times and don't remember seeing any blacks. So, yes, there probably are Afroargentinians out there, but not nearly enough as to effect mainstream Argentina.
There's no "probably" about it.
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Old 05-31-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: UWS
140 posts, read 268,952 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Aberration? That's a very strange way to describe a population. Anyway, yes, the Afro-Argentine population has declined to almost nothing, but there IS still a population. And there have been, even recently, Afro-Argentine soccer players, such as Hector "Chocolate" Baley, who played in the 80s. There are also figures such as reggae singer Fidel Nadal.

Argentina received many thousands of African slaves. The tango - at least the word - is of African origin, as are mucama (young girl, generic word for maid) and candombe (dance). Argentines used to eat, or still eat, an African stew called mazamorra, and also chinchulines (chitlins)!

There's no "probably" about it.
"Aberration" as in "not part of the mainstream." I'm not sure what's so strange about that word.

The article you linked does not do a very good job of supporting your point. If a person's DNA registers a 5% trace of African ancestry, does that make them black in your mind? Nevermind that that person didn't even know s/he had black ancestry and that there's no discernible African cultural component in that person's life. The article even states that there are no blacks found in modern day Argentina. Again, the fact is that Afro-Argentine culture does not exist. It might have existed more than a century ago, there might even be traces of it in modern day Argentina; but that's a long way from what you're stating as fact.

About the word tango, the etymology of the word might be of African origin, but that doesn't really make tango African, does it? And if you think it does, I'd really like to read your theory since the music and dance itself does not strike me as African.

And about mazamorra, I have eaten mazamorra in several countries in Latin America and it has always been maize-based, which almost certainly means it comes from the Amerindians in the region. I don't know what Argentine mazamorra is made of, maybe you can enlighten us.

But even if the tango was of African origin - extremely unlikely - and Argentine mazamorra was in fact not made of maize, that still doesn't make true your statement that there are blacks in Argentina. At best, if the article you linked is correct, you could say that at one time - more than a century ago - there were blacks in Argentina and that some traces of that ancestry survive currently.
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Old 05-31-2011, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by pizarrony View Post
"Aberration" as in "not part of the mainstream." I'm not sure what's so strange about that word.

The article you linked does not do a very good job of supporting your point. If a person's DNA registers a 5% trace of African ancestry, does that make them black in your mind? Nevermind that that person didn't even know s/he had black ancestry and that there's no discernible African cultural component in that person's life. The article even states that there are no blacks found in modern day Argentina. Again, the fact is that Afro-Argentine culture does not exist. It might have existed more than a century ago, there might even be traces of it in modern day Argentina; but that's a long way from what you're stating as fact.

About the word tango, the etymology of the word might be of African origin, but that doesn't really make tango African, does it? And if you think it does, I'd really like to read your theory since the music and dance itself does not strike me as African.

And about mazamorra, I have eaten mazamorra in several countries in Latin America and it has always been maize-based, which almost certainly means it comes from the Amerindians in the region. I don't know what Argentine mazamorra is made of, maybe you can enlighten us.

But even if the tango was of African origin - extremely unlikely - and Argentine mazamorra was in fact not made of maize, that still doesn't make true your statement that there are blacks in Argentina. At best, if the article you linked is correct, you could say that at one time - more than a century ago - there were blacks in Argentina and that some traces of that ancestry survive currently.
Did you look at the videos? In them were numerous people of obvious African ancestry in today's Argentina.

Did you simply discount the presence of words like candombe, mucama, berimbau?

As for mazamorra, it was Afro-Argentines who were among the most active people who sold it as street vendors in Buenos Aires during and after slavery.
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Old 05-31-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
961 posts, read 2,463,738 times
Reputation: 524
To Pizzaroni's defense Lucario, Argentina had a significant African presence at one point, but through the lack of need of slave labor and the increased immigration from Germany and Italy the portion of Africans and Natives dwindled making Argentina the most European of all Latin American countries. Its a mystery what became of their once sizeable African population and its even a mystery what happened to the natives as well, both mestizos and those of African descent are unusually small in number in spite of their influence on the culture.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,636,263 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
To Pizzaroni's defense Lucario, Argentina had a significant African presence at one point, but through the lack of need of slave labor and the increased immigration from Germany and Italy the portion of Africans and Natives dwindled making Argentina the most European of all Latin American countries. Its a mystery what became of their once sizeable African population and its even a mystery what happened to the natives as well, both mestizos and those of African descent are unusually small in number in spite of their influence on the culture.
I get that, I do. Just don't act like Africans never existed/don't exist there.
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Old 05-31-2011, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
961 posts, read 2,463,738 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I get that, I do. Just don't act like Africans never existed/don't exist there.
True, there's alot of research dedicated to the subject of the gradual "dissappearence" of the Afro-Argentines. Being that they had such a significant number in the past. Their influence is still in the music and dance, but as a people it is a very small minority.
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