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Old 08-07-2013, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Riverdale, New York
1,283 posts, read 2,296,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
One of the issues with DNA tests is that they might be flawed. Given that most blacks of the Diaspora who have some European ancestry get it from their father's side than it might be hidden if only their mother's female ancestors are taken into account (mitochondrial).

Other studies have estimated that up to 80% of AAs, and 20% of white Americans have Euro and Afro ancestry respectively. Maybe quite distant, so not visible.

But its obvious to most that AAs usually do not look like continental Africans, implying some degree of non African ancestry.

The argument that you are having is based on the "what do I call myself". In the USA one drop means that you are black. In Latin America one drop means that you fall into one of the scores of "mulato" categories suggesting that Denzil Washington is not black.
Well he's Black and nothing else because he was born here with the one drop rule.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:50 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,475,369 times
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Originally Posted by Grosvenor View Post
Well he's Black and nothing else because he was born here with the one drop rule.

Many Latin Americans will wail that the USA is "racist" because denzil Washington is not called mulato, using his vagie non African ancestry as a way to escape such categorization.

Just ask any Dominican who looks like Denzil if he is "black". Interestingly some will even invent some long winded response to imply that they only have some vague African ancestry so should not be called "black".
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Riverdale, New York
1,283 posts, read 2,296,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Many Latin Americans will wail that the USA is "racist" because denzil Washington is not called mulato, using his vagie non African ancestry as a way to escape such categorization.

Just ask any Dominican who looks like Denzil if he is "black". Interestingly some will even invent some long winded response to imply that they only have some vague African ancestry so should not be called "black".
Well it doesn't matter what they look like. They were brought up in a completely different system, so you can't expect them to view themselves as one thing when they were not under the same categories that are established here. Latin America does not have a one drop system like the U.S. does.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosvenor View Post
Well he's Black and nothing else because he was born here with the one drop rule.
Who are you referring to?
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:27 AM
 
578 posts, read 957,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
OK so this shows your perspective. Many people of Haitian descent, who were born in the DR, and whose parents were born in the DR have hardly been treated nicely, unless they come from affluent backgrounds.

You also need to make mention of this while you engage in your rant. The illtreatment goes two ways.

Were the DR free from bias the selection of an unambiguously black woman who wore her hair "natural" would not be a factor worthy of mention. But yet it is. Some Dominicans going as far as claiming that her selection was "political" and taht she is bound to loses. I invite them to view former Miss Universe from Trinidad & Tobago. Another who came third, might have won had she not flubbed the question.
What do you mean? What are you implying by an highlighting an excerpt of what was written as showing my perspective? I was simply stating a fact and you ignored the rest of all that I wrote.

I was simply referring to the fact that people overlook the complex relations between DR and Haiti. And the animosity towards things Haitian stems from the Haitian invasion and occupation and during the time of Haitian rule, many Haitians raped Dominicans and suppressed Dominicans rights and cultures and imposed oppressive laws and taxes and lessened the presence of the Church and state etc. Many Dominicans disdain for Haitians stems from these historical facts and were passed down from generation to generation. Also xenophobia is not the same thing as racism.

It's a well known fact that Trujillo, and to am extent Balaguer had effects as well. But analyze all aspects of history.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:44 AM
 
578 posts, read 957,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Reason for this is that Panamanian West Indians are more likely to describe themselves as "black" and use this as an ethnicd racial identity. AfroLatin Panamanians are less likely to do this, so the conversation around "blackness" revolves around the West Indian descent population. Indeed there are Panamanians who would have one believe that these are the only "blacks" in that country. Antillanos acount for between 10-15% of the population, becoming harder to distingush as the group assimilates more and more with each generation, and indeed many no longer speak any English.
Have you met all Afro-Latin peoples? Also, where are you getting your information from? 10% to 15% of Panama's population is NOT Antillano. The population of West Indian descent is a very tiny minority, albeit visible and vocal.

There are actually more blacks of Hispanic colonial Latin origins (afrocoloniales) than those of West Indian origins. Look up the Census results of Panama as well.

Also, the West Indian descent population has left in large numbers en masse to the United States.

Hispanic blacks, descendants of Spanish speaking colonial black Panamanian slaves from the Spanish colonial period are numerically larger in Panama and in addition they are more dispersed and scattered out all throughout Panama. They can be found in all areas.

And the problem is that people use semantics to overshadow the existence of other groups

Colombians are the largest immigrant group in Panama
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:55 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
One of the issues with DNA tests is that they might be flawed. Given that most blacks of the Diaspora who have some European ancestry get it from their father's side than it might be hidden if only their mother's female ancestors are taken into account (mitochondrial).

Other studies have estimated that up to 80% of AAs, and 20% of white Americans have Euro and Afro ancestry respectively. Maybe quite distant, so not visible.

But its obvious to most that AAs usually do not look like continental Africans, implying some degree of non African ancestry.
.
AAs are indistinguishable from continental Africans. If an AA changed his or her accent or language, there's be no way to tell the difference.

The issue is is that the dna tests don't confirm what people some people would like to believe in themselves. In the minds of some people, anything to do with Africa is bad and they are ashamed of their African ancestry. So they need to have as much non African ancestry as possible, even when its totally not there.

Most AAs do not have European features. Most AAs have flat noses, big lips, kinky hair, and dark skinned. Most AAs are in no danger of being confused with a mixed race person who has a combination of European and African features.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:58 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Really do not know how any one can truly determine how many "blacks" live in Brazil, even if we include those who have visible levels of African ancestry.

I will argue that Brazil has fewer "blacks" than the USA.

I also suspect that the AfroColombian black population is also well under 30%, even including mulatos.
Well, the Brazilian version of the census bureau can collect that information. Brazil is listed to have the largest population of African descent outside of Nigeria.

As for Colombia, it went through changing demographics. As the light skinned Colombians left Colombia in large numbers, the Black Colombians didn't. Meaning the percentage of Blacks in Colombia became a lot higher . Some estimate it as high as 40%.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Riverdale, New York
1,283 posts, read 2,296,539 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
AAs are indistinguishable from continental Africans. If an AA changed his or her accent or language, there's be no way to tell the difference.

The issue is is that the dna tests don't confirm what people some people would like to believe in themselves. In the minds of some people, anything to do with Africa is bad and they are ashamed of their African ancestry. So they need to have as much non African ancestry as possible, even when its totally not there.

Most AAs do not have European features. Most AAs have flat noses, big lips, kinky hair, and dark skinned. Most AAs are in no danger of being confused with a mixed race person who has a combination of European and African features.
HA! LMAO! I thought you said Blacks aren't dark? I agree with you 110% though. I've seen plenty of Hispanics like that too minus the kinky hair and flat nose. Wide noses, big lips, curly hair but just not dark skinned.
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Old 08-08-2013, 03:03 PM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,837,597 times
Reputation: 10119
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The argument that you are having is based on the "what do I call myself". In the USA one drop means that you are black. In Latin America one drop means that you fall into one of the scores of "mulato" categories suggesting that Denzil Washington is not black.
I have never heard anyone in Latin America refer to himself as mulato. Denzel Washington would be described as moreno or moracho in Latin America. Which basically means dark skinned (Black, but not always strictly limited to people of African descent). Or he'd be called negro.

I'm lighter than Denzel, and when I was in Paraguay people referred to me alternatively as africano, moreno, moracho, or negro.

So yes, Denzel Washington IS BLACK in Latin America.

People come up with these nonsensical explanations of race in Latin America that sounds like it comes from a 1970s outdated textbook or encyclopedia.

AfroLatinos lighter than Denzel have complained of racial discrimination because they are of African descent.
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