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Old 01-02-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Clinton Hill, Brooklyn
383 posts, read 1,313,193 times
Reputation: 140

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To me this is the way i see it within another 5 to 10 years places like Harlem that the "gentrification" has tried to "fix" will be down the tube again. I mean really just because you clean up some trash, bulid some stores, and move a few white people move into harlem you think it's gunna be long Island or somthin? You must have lost your mind. Its only a matter of time when 80's and 90s time era rears it's ugly head again. I mean look Crime in all areas went up in 2010. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:32 PM
 
110 posts, read 219,072 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkvillian718 View Post
To me this is the way i see it within another 5 to 10 years places like Harlem that the "gentrification" has tried to "fix" will be down the tube again. I mean really just because you clean up some trash, bulid some stores, and move a few white people move into harlem you think it's gunna be long Island or somthin? You must have lost your mind. Its only a matter of time when 80's and 90s time era rears it's ugly head again. I mean look Crime in all areas went up in 2010. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
This may sound strange to you black and hispanic new yorkers, but I was reading the trends that recently the white population in new york city is slightly increasing and areas where blacks and hispanics live are increasingly becoming "gentrified" but for me as an Italian and other ethnic whites with roots in this city, this is not really a positive development for us either. Because these areas are a completely different type of white person that comes from a generic middle american culture, very little to do with the old new york whites.

So its not simply a matter of rich moving out the middle class for me, its that alot of our ethnic enclaves are being overrun which lowers our quality of life and takes away from the strong community sense that made new york unique from other parts of the USA. I mean if I go to a place in kansas sure they are white, but I might as well be an alien from mars I am so different to them.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:34 PM
 
138 posts, read 314,073 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkvillian718 View Post
To me this is the way i see it within another 5 to 10 years places like Harlem that the "gentrification" has tried to "fix" will be down the tube again. I mean really just because you clean up some trash, bulid some stores, and move a few white people move into harlem you think it's gunna be long Island or somthin? You must have lost your mind. Its only a matter of time when 80's and 90s time era rears it's ugly head again. I mean look Crime in all areas went up in 2010. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Harlem will never be Long Island, it will always be economically diverse as long as such a high % of people live in rent controlled units. Besides, Harlem is highly urban, walkable, ethnic, good mass transit; L.I. is the opposite.

The place will never return to the 80's and 90's or at least the chance is very minuscule. It will either become worse in terms of decay and crime due to economic climate after an event or it will stay about the same, or it will gentrify to the point the majority of low income people are displaced (not even close right now).
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
1,405 posts, read 2,441,998 times
Reputation: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSI View Post
This may sound strange to you black and hispanic new yorkers, but I was reading the trends that recently the white population in new york city is slightly increasing and areas where blacks and hispanics live are increasingly becoming "gentrified" but for me as an Italian and other ethnic whites with roots in this city, this is not really a positive development for us either. Because these areas are a completely different type of white person that comes from a generic middle american culture, very little to do with the old new york whites.

So its not simply a matter of rich moving out the middle class for me, its that alot of our ethnic enclaves are being overrun which lowers our quality of life and takes away from the strong community. . .
This statement is full of bull. You sound really bitter and in a way racist. (This isn't the first post where you're discriminating) "These areas are a completely different type of white person. . ." You sound really trapped in your little section of BK. Wake up dude this isn't 1960.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:55 PM
 
138 posts, read 314,073 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuddedLeather View Post
This statement is full of bull. You sound really bitter and in a way racist. (This isn't the first post where you're discriminating) "These areas are a completely different type of white person. . ." You sound really trapped in your little section of BK. Wake up dude this isn't 1960.
He doesn't even realize a lot of Latin Americans are White. A lot of those Puerto Ricans and other Latin Americans "ruining" the neighborhood are purely, mostly, or partly Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese, French, British, and an assortment of other European ancestries. Those Blacks, most of them have at least some European ancestry too.

BTW GeorgeSI, unless you were born in Italy you are an Italian-American ancestry. Most Italians I know don't think like you so I don't know what you are...
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
1,405 posts, read 2,441,998 times
Reputation: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
He doesn't even realize a lot of Latin Americans are White. A lot of those Puerto Ricans and other Latin Americans "ruining" the neighborhood are purely, mostly, or partly Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Portuguese, French, British, and an assortment of other European ancestries. Those Blacks, most of them have at least some European ancestry too.

BTW GeorgeSI, unless you were born in Italy you are an Italian-American ancestry. Most Italians I know don't think like you so I don't know what you are...
Exactly!!! I was thinking that, but didn't want to mention it.
I'm Black, yet I know I have ancestry from Scotland (and my surname is most common in England and Ireland).

Stop generalizing an entire race based on your opinions or past experiences. I've experienced racism/discrimination from people of all races (including Black) But after all of it - I still look at every person as an individual. You should try it.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:47 PM
 
110 posts, read 219,072 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuddedLeather View Post
This statement is full of bull. You sound really bitter and in a way racist. (This isn't the first post where you're discriminating) "These areas are a completely different type of white person. . ." You sound really trapped in your little section of BK. Wake up dude this isn't 1960.
Somehow I get the feeling if I was black talking about my neighborhood in brooklyn you wouldn't be telling me to wake up and tell me its not the 60's.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
1,405 posts, read 2,441,998 times
Reputation: 887
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSI View Post
Somehow I get the feeling if I was black talking about my neighborhood in brooklyn you wouldn't be telling me to wake up and tell me its not the 60's.
George if you were black and discriminating against ANY race in a demeaning manner, I'd tell you the same thing. I don't like it no matter who you are. I don't make fun of people - and I don't judge based on stereotypes.

I don't give out "free" cards just because some one is black. It's not nice to secretly do it either because then you're pretty much a hypocrite. I don't associate with people who are close minded and (especially) racist. And my friends (White and Black) have the same views.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
157 posts, read 393,918 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
Looks more diverse to me. More income, economic, ethnic, ancestral and racial diversity in a lot of areas. Look at Bed-Stuy, once almost entirely African American or Afro-Carib/Latin, a lot more diversity now. There is enough rent controlled property in NYC to ensure a good % of these people stay at least for the time being.



Careless newcomers, the new comers are doing great things for the city. Recently there was a closed street parade in Williamsburg. Sponsored by "newcomers". The Prospect Park bike lanes, saved by "newcomers". It's the natives doing nothing, so infatuated with their own lives. Complaining and not realizing what they have, trust me I was there.

The world moves faster now, changes will occur at a faster pace. It's still natural due to our economic system.



New comers make NYC. A few generations ago the demographics were completely different. Embrace it. The changes in store for NYC are amazing.

Harlem had flavor and lost it, how? It's still largely African American and crime and poverty is still an issue. It's going to always be largely African American as long as all those rent controlled units are there. Unless all those people defeat the cycle of poverty which I highly doubt will happen. The primary draws to Harlem are an African American community and a high density urban environment.
Did you just completely ignore what I wrote or do you have trouble with reading comprehension too? Race is a thing of the 20th century, class is the new thing people identify others with in the 21st century. Get it? Class diversity doesn't work. Don't believe me? Why are all the old residents in Harlem up in arms about new residents taking over? Because all of these new residents can afford a down-payment of $350,000. It's driving prices up in the community that was once working-class. And please don't put words in my mouth. When did I say that Harlem lost its flavor? I said that it sure as hell is a possibility if things continue the way the are with gentrification and whatnot.

You claim to be a native NYer right? Why are you bashing your own childhood and status by saying, "It's the natives doing nothing, so infatuated with their own lives."? I realize that you're trying to separate yourself from uneducated, thugsters and whatever, but generalizing all native NYers like that is really naive, ignorant, and shallow. I'm glad to hear you've moved on, but it appears you still have a few issues.

So, you had an epiphany, and now you've become a whole new person because you've learned to accept what is going on around you without asking any questions. Hmmmm...

The first comment you posted was totally ridiculous and overwhelmingly retarded. Let me give a concise summary.

Um, well, you see guys gentrification is not sooo bad because... ummm... it rebuilds communities and diversififies communities... and like... most of the poor people are still there but like not as many, soooooo... it's like... better.

Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around you, so what you may view years ago from experience has little to nothing to do with the big picture. There is a thing in this world called statistics, and that is what people rely on nowadays FYI. The statistics show that NYC has become less diverse (in terms of class) and will continue to be under the iron fist of our mayor and gentrification. Check out these articles by Urban Studies. Urban Studies did a whole series of articles on gentrification (finally some tangible evidence questioning gentrification) Gentrification and Social Mixing: Towards an Inclusive Urban Renaissance? — Urban Stud

Thank you Stephen Hawking for your brilliant assessment on how newcomers benefit NYC. Newcomers are a good thing. BUT we are attracting them in the wrong ways. Many, and when I say many i mean a very significant portion of the new population, have invested in buildings ONLY to turn them over for profit. That does not build a community. In fact, if it continues, sooner or later all of these buildings will go abandoned because the economy sucks, and may suck for a good amount of time. Look how badly our nation as a whole and city are in debt. TOO MUCH INVESTMENT is sometimes bad. Too much of anything is bad. And I think everyone can agree we are getting to the point of too much gentrification.

According to our crime statistics (not that I trust those), Harlem is the safest its been for God knows how long (well our stats know but I don't feel like looking that up). But it's a goddamn long time. Crime obviously is not the biggest issue there anymore. Try AFFORDABLE HOUSING. Ohh that might be a lil' more important than policing the police borough.
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:07 PM
 
138 posts, read 314,073 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAGED View Post
Did you just completely ignore what I wrote or do you have trouble with reading comprehension too? Race is a thing of the 20th century, class is the new thing people identify others with in the 21st century. Get it? Class diversity doesn't work. Don't believe me? Why are all the old residents in Harlem up in arms about new residents taking over? Because all of these new residents can afford a down-payment of $350,000. It's driving prices up in the community that was once working-class. And please don't put words in my mouth. When did I say that Harlem lost its flavor? I said that it sure as hell is a possibility if things continue the way the are with gentrification and whatnot.
Have you ever heard of the concept mixed income housing?

Besides, Harlem is full of rent controlled apartments, most of those people do not have to worry about being displaced. The community hasn't been working class in the sense of South Brooklyn for generations. It was most recently working poor with high rates of unemployment. Right now it is largely working poor with an influx of professionals and and displacement of some of the blue collar workers.

[quote]You claim to be a native NYer right? Why are you bashing your own childhood and status by saying, "It's the natives doing nothing, so infatuated with their own lives."? I realize that you're trying to separate yourself from uneducated, thugsters and whatever, but generalizing all native NYers like that is really naive, ignorant, and shallow. I'm glad to hear you've moved on, but it appears you still have a few issues.[quote]

It's true, most New Yorkers do not understand the issues in their own city. I see this every time I visit home. It's not just a NYC thing, it's people in general.

Quote:
So, you had an epiphany, and now you've become a whole new person because you've learned to accept what is going on around you without asking any questions. Hmmmm...

The first comment you posted was totally ridiculous and overwhelmingly retarded. Let me give a concise summary.

Um, well, you see guys gentrification is not sooo bad because... ummm... it rebuilds communities and diversififies communities... and like... most of the poor people are still there but like not as many, soooooo... it's like... better.

Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around you, so what you may view years ago from experience has little to nothing to do with the big picture. There is a thing in this world called statistics, and that is what people rely on nowadays FYI. The statistics show that NYC has become less diverse (in terms of class) and will continue to be under the iron fist of our mayor and gentrification. Check out these articles by Urban Studies. Urban Studies did a whole series of articles on gentrification (finally some tangible evidence questioning gentrification) Gentrification and Social Mixing: Towards an Inclusive Urban Renaissance? — Urban Stud

Thank you Stephen Hawking for your brilliant assessment on how newcomers benefit NYC. Newcomers are a good thing. BUT we are attracting them in the wrong ways. Many, and when I say many i mean a very significant portion of the new population, have invested in buildings ONLY to turn them over for profit. That does not build a community. In fact, if it continues, sooner or later all of these buildings will go abandoned because the economy sucks, and may suck for a good amount of time. Look how badly our nation as a whole and city are in debt. TOO MUCH INVESTMENT is sometimes bad. Too much of anything is bad. And I think everyone can agree we are getting to the point of too much gentrification.

According to our crime statistics (not that I trust those), Harlem is the safest its been for God knows how long (well our stats know but I don't feel like looking that up). But it's a goddamn long time. Crime obviously is not the biggest issue there anymore. Try AFFORDABLE HOUSING. Ohh that might be a lil' more important than policing the police borough.
Gentrification is not so bad. NYC will always be diverse because once again, rent control. I don't know about you but I don't mind the new business along 125th Street. Nor the greening of the outer boroughs. New bike lanes and BRT's. I also don't mind the luxury condos being built. It's nice to see successful people in neighborhoods like Bushwick and Harlem. If people get displaced so be it, that's capitalism. That's the way it works. Survival of the fittest, no? It's always been this way. Get with it or get out.
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