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Old 07-12-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Location: NYC
3,072 posts, read 5,472,203 times
Reputation: 2993

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblue123 View Post
I think it's harder for an average person to live an average life in NYC. In central Florida, you can earn 12 bucks an hour and live in at least a nice studio, maybe 1 bedroom. Over here, you can't.

Once you start getting into basic and specific things like that, the whole "culture", "nightlife", "energy" argument becomes moot.

I think a lot of people who grew up here want to move is just because of that: THEY GREW UP HERE. When you're raised in a rat, pee infested, unhospitable city and then go to other places, you begin to see that how you were living is wrong. lol
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:59 AM
 
Location: Glendale NY
4,840 posts, read 9,878,834 times
Reputation: 3598
Because I haven't found a good job that will give me enough to save up and leave.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:19 AM
 
Location: QUEENS NYC
442 posts, read 1,293,987 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblue123 View Post
I think it's harder for an average person to live an average life in NYC. In central Florida, you can earn 12 bucks an hour and live in at least a nice studio, maybe 1 bedroom. Over here, you can't.

Once you start getting into basic and specific things like that, the whole "culture", "nightlife", "energy" argument becomes moot.

I think a lot of people who grew up here want to move is just because of that: THEY GREW UP HERE. When you're raised in a rat, pee infested, unhospitable city and then go to other places, you begin to see that how you were living is wrong. lol
exactly. theres no night life when you cant even afford rent
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,784,016 times
Reputation: 2074
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvillager View Post
People have been leaving NYC? The population of NYC has actually grew by about a million people over the past 20 years. Just look at the threads on this forum, many dream of living here, but few can afford it. People don't need to be convinced to move here, the city sells itself.
Funny, most of the people I know, grew up with and view as my contemporaries have gone one of two routes,

They have earned enough money to live above the muck with a lifestyle most of you consider a fantasy; or

They have simply left the city. Some have stayed in the tri-state moving out into McMansion land or into the near in progrssive suburbs.

The rest, more than half, have left for better lives in either the DC/Maryland suburbs, Charlotte/NC suburbs, Atlanta suburbs, or Florida.

All of these people are professionals from middle and upper middle backgrounds, most are black.

The rest of my contemporaries, including myself hang on here for a variety of reasons, but the issue of leaving is a constant discussion and a eventuality for all, including myself. For many of us, the politics of the city is the last straw, simply too leftist for comfort. We feel we are not politically represented, consequently the issues that concern our quality of life aren't being addressed.

Not a single one of us, gives a dmn about Gay Marriage, but we are desparately concerned about the lousy schools!, for example. We don't give a dmn about bike lanes, but we do care about the lousy subways. We all drive and forego public transport (we've paid our dues) as much as possible and the city does next to nothing to improve the deteriorating road and highway system, nor to improve traffic, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

The typical sentiment, is a true one like this, "...if I could pick up my law practice and move to (fill in the place of choice) I'd do it tommorrow...."

Quite typical of many I know, and that is from a person who is native born, works in the city, lives in a NJ McMcMansion 4x the size of the hovels most NYers live in and with 5x the income.

Contrarily, I know a retired couple who have been split on the issue for years, the husband retired and bought a wonderful home in FL. The wife did not want to go. So they kept the NYC home and spilt their time 'visiting'. After a decade or so, the wife finally relented, they sold the NYC home and she moved fully to FL. After a year or two she just didn't acclimate and is now looking for an apt back in the city and intends to return to their 'visiting' relationship.

Others I know are happy as sht, though still miss NYC. The most satisfied I know are the fortunate who have places both in NYC and in the ATL or FL, and travel back and forth at will. I've never met a dissatisfied Snowbird!

Now that is reality.

Now, if you are a nit-witted Transplant having moved here yesterday and think yourself a NYer, really WHAT do you know? And who do you know?

****

Personally, I stay because of health reasons. Before I had health issues, I stayed mostly because of the difficulty of moving my profession and income to FL. This is the problem for most of my friends who remain in NYC.

Many of us have tried to leave, myself three times! Several stay because of their children. If your children are beyond grammer school, it is virtually impossible to acclimate them to another place successfully. I know of no one who has successfully done it.

For most, its jobs and incomes which cannot be had elsewhere. Most would suffer sigificant drops in income, or so they think. For many its hard to wrap your head around dropping half your NYC income. Even if you'll probably live a richer lifestyle. True or not its scary. Of course, the people I'm talking about are all natives.

I think its tougher to make the decision for those living a comparatively fair NYC lifestyle. This is particularly so for those whose housing costs are less of a concern, in which case its simply a matter of quality of life and lifestyle.

Also, for blacks and other minorities, race is an issue, both here in NYC and elsewhere one might move. From a Black American perspective, specifically a bourgousie pov, this city is becoming far less attractive, as our traditional enclaves are overrun, and there are few places within NYC where we can live our class. I miss my old neighborhood as if my heart was broken, it is. Can one ever go home....

Few choices, move to Manhattan (and become scattered) or the trendy areas of Brooklyn (in many cases we already live there), or live among ethic whites (loathesome choice), or live among the Transplants in areas where they are or will become the majority (not the worst but for natives uuggghhh!, isn't this supposed to be MY neighborhood???), or what, what?

Increasingly, the answer is another state/city which is more inviting with a place of our own for our class. I always find it interesting, when a black from such a non-NYC environment comes to NYC and naively inquires, "where are the upper class black neighborhoods??".

Gone to Atlanta....
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:40 AM
 
288 posts, read 565,067 times
Reputation: 296
^^ funny that you complain about city politics (you seem to confuse the gay marriage issue for a city thing btw) being too "leftist" but then go on to deplore that the city does not enough public service in terms of taking care of the infrastructure. Isn't any type of interference from any government body evil socialism in the "rightist" (to keep up with your terminology) mindset? If the perfect market gives you crappy subways, that can only mean that demand and offer have hashed it out in favor of crappy and unreliable. Rejoice! Your system works!
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,784,016 times
Reputation: 2074
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSI View Post
I grew up here and I have never heard of anybody moving to where you described, except for florida to retire. I think only the new york blacks are going to actually live and work in the south, everybody else is staying here or going a little bit further away from Manhattan.
Rather a statement of your self-centered insularity and provincial nature, than what is really occuring in this city, don't you think?

"Everybody", huh?

Shesh, the ignorance of some is just astounding!

You're Italian ain't ya?

Also, ahhh, there are more "new york blacks", than there are of youse, so ahh, I thik the happening is just a weeee bit significant, but I understand how you think.

So, ahhh, cities and areas like, Pheonix, Denver, Charlotte, DC, etc., you know the whole 'Sunbelt' thing is exclusive of NYers except, of course, the NY blacks moving back to slavery?

I know the toll for the bridge is a bit high, but you need to get off the island MORE!
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
1,775 posts, read 3,771,825 times
Reputation: 1894
Default I would choose to stay in NYC, even though it kinda sux

I grew up in Queens and lived in South Queens up until I met my husband and moved out to Long Island (Nassau). I worked in midtown up until 3 months ago (job transferred me to the LI office) but I think there are days I hated going to NYC because of the congestion, traffic, unfriendlyness, and dirty-ness of the city.

However, I would choose to stay in NYC because frankly there are certain amenities I would not want to give up (ie decent chinese food at 1 am, great pizza, constant entertainment, access to all types of food, fashion, etc). I dont care much for "culture". I think the last time I went to the Met Museum of Art was 2007 when I was dating my husband , but I like to know that the museum is there if I wanted to go there any random day.

I know several people in my life who have moved away from NYC. One is a high school friend who lived on LI and moved to North Carolina once she got pregnant with her 3rd child. Moving to NC was almost a necessity because they just couldn't afford the rising cost of living in NY, and they wanted a bigger house. They are living like kings right now in a Raleigh suburb (rent is like $ 1,200 for a 2200 sq ft house!). Another friend of my husband's moved to Florida hoping to retire but she actually RETURNED to NYC because she couldn't deal with the FL heat and the hurricanes!

The fact is Cities are the way of the future. Societies can not survive without cities. Humans need to live and work together in close quarters to achieve progress, which is why Wall Street is barely a mile in length and houses one, if not THE most influential stock market in the world. The fact remains that - like it or not - NYC will be here to stay. There will always be transplants and people who choose to leave for whatever reason, but thats the great thing about this country, if you hate NYC, you are always free to leave!!
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Austin
15,580 posts, read 10,303,135 times
Reputation: 19353
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Funny, most of the people I know, grew up with and view as my contemporaries have gone one of two routes,

They have earned enough money to live above the muck with a lifestyle most of you consider a fantasy; or

They have simply left the city. Some have stayed in the tri-state moving out into McMansion land or into the near in progrssive suburbs.

The rest, more than half, have left for better lives in either the DC/Maryland suburbs, Charlotte/NC suburbs, Atlanta suburbs, or Florida.

All of these people are professionals from middle and upper middle backgrounds, most are black.

The rest of my contemporaries, including myself hang on here for a variety of reasons, but the issue of leaving is a constant discussion and a eventuality for all, including myself. For many of us, the politics of the city is the last straw, simply too leftist for comfort. We feel we are not politically represented, consequently the issues that concern our quality of life aren't being addressed.

Not a single one of us, gives a dmn about Gay Marriage, but we are desparately concerned about the lousy schools!, for example. We don't give a dmn about bike lanes, but we do care about the lousy subways. We all drive and forego public transport (we've paid our dues) as much as possible and the city does next to nothing to improve the deteriorating road and highway system, nor to improve traffic, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera....

The typical sentiment, is a true one like this, "...if I could pick up my law practice and move to (fill in the place of choice) I'd do it tommorrow...."

Quite typical of many I know, and that is from a person who is native born, works in the city, lives in a NJ McMcMansion 4x the size of the hovels most NYers live in and with 5x the income.

Contrarily, I know a retired couple who have been split on the issue for years, the husband retired and bought a wonderful home in FL. The wife did not want to go. So they kept the NYC home and spilt their time 'visiting'. After a decade or so, the wife finally relented, they sold the NYC home and she moved fully to FL. After a year or two she just didn't acclimate and is now looking for an apt back in the city and intends to return to their 'visiting' relationship.

Others I know are happy as sht, though still miss NYC. The most satisfied I know are the fortunate who have places both in NYC and in the ATL or FL, and travel back and forth at will. I've never met a dissatisfied Snowbird!

Now that is reality.

Now, if you are a nit-witted Transplant having moved here yesterday and think yourself a NYer, really WHAT do you know? And who do you know?

****

Personally, I stay because of health reasons. Before I had health issues, I stayed mostly because of the difficulty of moving my profession and income to FL. This is the problem for most of my friends who remain in NYC.

Many of us have tried to leave, myself three times! Several stay because of their children. If your children are beyond grammer school, it is virtually impossible to acclimate them to another place successfully. I know of no one who has successfully done it.

For most, its jobs and incomes which cannot be had elsewhere. Most would suffer sigificant drops in income, or so they think. For many its hard to wrap your head around dropping half your NYC income. Even if you'll probably live a richer lifestyle. True or not its scary. Of course, the people I'm talking about are all natives.

I think its tougher to make the decision for those living a comparatively fair NYC lifestyle. This is particularly so for those whose housing costs are less of a concern, in which case its simply a matter of quality of life and lifestyle.

Also, for blacks and other minorities, race is an issue, both here in NYC and elsewhere one might move. From a Black American perspective, specifically a bourgousie pov, this city is becoming far less attractive, as our traditional enclaves are overrun, and there are few places within NYC where we can live our class. I miss my old neighborhood as if my heart was broken, it is. Can one ever go home....

Few choices, move to Manhattan (and become scattered) or the trendy areas of Brooklyn (in many cases we already live there), or live among ethic whites (loathesome choice), or live among the Transplants in areas where they are or will become the majority (not the worst but for natives uuggghhh!, isn't this supposed to be MY neighborhood???), or what, what?

Increasingly, the answer is another state/city which is more inviting with a place of our own for our class. I always find it interesting, when a black from such a non-NYC environment comes to NYC and naively inquires, "where are the upper class black neighborhoods??".

Gone to Atlanta....
I chose to include this whole post for reference.

"there are few places within NYC where we can live our class" without "ethic whites [sic] (loathsome choice)" Really. Racist much?

Last edited by texan2yankee; 07-13-2011 at 10:58 AM..
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:06 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,784,016 times
Reputation: 2074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxis28 View Post
Wasn't the city a "welfare state" when COL was much lower, pre-2000 too?

I don't believe for a sec that the increase in wages/benefits to city-workers in the past decade is responsible for the exponential increase in rent. It's the increase in property values that has driven everything up.
When was COL much lower? How old are you?

Some of you overly young and Transplanted seem to think the issues of the day began when you moved here. They did not.

Rent Control/Stabilization laws, ahhh when were they enacted? Why did they enact them? How old is public housing?

WAKE UP!

BTW, what you 'believe' is irrelevant, belief, facts, and reality are different things, only two are real.

The previous poster DID NOT tie wages of government workers to rents!

What he did was to highlight the cost of government salaries to the cost of living in NYC, specifically to TAXES, which are the highest municipal taxes in the country!

Got it?

He also, rightly, stated that the city government 'artificially creates demand' which, factually, is the greatest cause of the astronomical housing cost.

Got that?

What is your 'belief' now?

Believing is a weakness, Knowing is a strength
*ToranagaSama*
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: New York City
1,556 posts, read 3,536,780 times
Reputation: 944
Been there, did it, grass was not greener!
3,000 square foot house, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, big backyard, pool, sitting on a golf course in South Carolina...$1300 a month. What happened? The place has no jobs....and the one's it does have don't pay anything.

One day I will have to make a decision...either:

  • Keep the house for vacation or
  • Sell it
Love it or hate it the bottom line is that there are things in NYC that other places simply do not offer. There is no sense in living someplace just because it has cheap housing but then cannot survive because there are no jobs!
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