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Old 05-25-2011, 12:39 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,241 times
Reputation: 20

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"People, who think that biodiesel can replace gasoline are living in a fantasy land."

People who compare gasoline consumption vs diesel/ Biodiesel dont know that they are two different animals. You can't put diesel in a gas engine or visa versa, so in that respect this is a true statement.

" Biodiesel solves no problems, only creating new ones.Replacing only five percent of the nation’s diesel consumption with biodiesel would require diverting approximately 60 percent of today’s soy crops to biodiesel production."

Another myth. In fact, 5% of the nation's diesel could be replaced by recycled cooking oil alone. Biodiesel from soy only uses the oil, not the bean. There would be a huge food surplus if more soy was cultivated for fuel.

" Another dark cloud looming over biofuels is whether producing them actually requires more energy than they can generate."

" After factoring in the energy needed to grow crops and then convert them into biofuels, Cornell University researcher David Pimental concludes that the numbers just don’t add up. His 2005 study found that producing ethanol from corn required 29 percent more energy than the end product itself is capable of generating. He found similarly troubling numbers in making biodiesel from soybeans."

Another Myth. It takes less energy to produce Biodiesel than it produces. 1-4 and in some cases 1-7 vs 1.5 -1 for ethanol, which is non viable and gives all biofuels a bad name. NYS Marc Alessi conducted a statewide study on the viability of soybean cultivation for biodiesel production and found that if we utilized all the unused land in the state we could replace 20% of the diesel NYS buys from out side the state, creating jobs and food surplus and fuel, without impacting world food supplies.

"Biodiesel produces increased levels of Nitrogen oxide, a component of smog and an eye irritant. Biodiesel tends to thicken at lower temperatures, more so than traditional diesel engine fuels. Thus, it is more difficult to store and transport in cold weather."

The increased NoX (maybe 10% more than petrodiesel) is petty compared to the 100% reduction in sulfur and co2, and up to 80% reduction of unburned hydrocarbons and soot. As far as cold weather use, petrodiesel makes a great additive to mitigate cold weather issues.

"Finally, quality of biodiesel varies widely, so car makers will only honor warranties up to 5 percent biodiesel. And biodiesel costs more than petroleum diesel."

The quality of biodiesel is now rigorously controlled and enjoys an ASTM designation, to the point that 100% biodiesel that meets national standards works fine in all unmodified diesel equipment. Most OEM now accept a 20% blend and we will see that increase as the public gains more understanding. Biodiesel is also currently cheaper than diesel. It is good to do some research before making broad opinion based claims.

"It's pretty obvious it's a dead end. What we need is a cheap oil. There are huge known and researched sources of oil on the planet, we need smart people in WH to secure cheap, reliable, and ample supply for the next 50 years or so until the hydrogen becomes a viable energy source"

Another myth. There is no such thing as cheap oil.
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:40 PM
 
3 posts, read 2,241 times
Reputation: 20
"People, who think that biodiesel can replace gasoline are living in a fantasy land."

People who compare gasoline consumption vs diesel/ Biodiesel dont know that they are two different animals. You can't put diesel in a gas engine or visa versa, so in that respect this is a true statement.

" Biodiesel solves no problems, only creating new ones.Replacing only five percent of the nationís diesel consumption with biodiesel would require diverting approximately 60 percent of todayís soy crops to biodiesel production."

Another myth. In fact, 5% of the nation's diesel could be replaced by recycled cooking oil alone. Biodiesel from soy only uses the oil, not the bean. Who eats soy oil? Nobody, it is mostly used for frying leaving the protein rich bean for food after the oil has been squeezed out, and then it can be used for biodiesel after. There would be a huge food surplus if more soy was cultivated for fuel.

" Another dark cloud looming over biofuels is whether producing them actually requires more energy than they can generate."

" After factoring in the energy needed to grow crops and then convert them into biofuels, Cornell University researcher David Pimental concludes that the numbers just donít add up. His 2005 study found that producing ethanol from corn required 29 percent more energy than the end product itself is capable of generating. He found similarly troubling numbers in making biodiesel from soybeans."

Another Myth. It takes less energy to produce Biodiesel than it produces. 1-4 parts energy and in some cases 1-7 vs 1.5 -1 for ethanol, which is non viable and gives all biofuels a bad name. NYS Assemblyman Marc Alessi conducted a statewide study on the viability of soybean cultivation for biodiesel production and found that if we utilized all the unused land in the state we could replace 20% of the diesel NYS buys from out side the state, creating jobs and food surplus and fuel, adding to world food supplies instead of taking away.

"Biodiesel produces increased levels of Nitrogen oxide, a component of smog and an eye irritant. Biodiesel tends to thicken at lower temperatures, more so than traditional diesel engine fuels. Thus, it is more difficult to store and transport in cold weather."

The increased NoX (maybe 10% more than petrodiesel) is petty compared to the 100% reduction in sulfur and co2 (biodiesel is carbon neutral), and up to 80% reduction of unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and soot. Biodiesel is more biodegradable than sugar, unlike toxic petrodiesel. As far as cold weather use, petrodiesel makes a great additive to mitigate cold weather issues. A 50/50 blend works great at low temperatures if using ASTM D-6751 certified biodiesel.

"Finally, quality of biodiesel varies widely, so car makers will only honor warranties up to 5 percent biodiesel. And biodiesel costs more than petroleum diesel."

The quality of biodiesel is now rigorously controlled and enjoys an ASTM designation, to the point that 100% biodiesel that meets national ASTM standards works fine in all unmodified diesel equipment. Most OEM's now accept a 20% blend and we will see that increase as the public gains more understanding. Biodiesel is also currently cheaper than diesel. It is good to do some research before making broad opinion based claims.

"It's pretty obvious it's a dead end. What we need is a cheap oil. There are huge known and researched sources of oil on the planet, we need smart people in WH to secure cheap, reliable, and ample supply for the next 50 years or so until the hydrogen becomes a viable energy source"

Another myth. There is no such thing as cheap oil.
BTW, hydrogen already is a viable energy source. Unfortunately, the Shells and BP's that run the United States of Oil have more interest in reaping these record profits at everybody's expense rather than implement all the alternatives that are available right now.
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Old 05-25-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: New York, New York
1,779 posts, read 1,857,878 times
Reputation: 1612
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8west View Post
What we need is a cheap oil. There are huge known and researched sources of oil on the planet, we need smart people in WH to secure cheap, reliable, and ample supply for the next 50 years or so until the hydrogen becomes a viable energy source.
Cheap oil is terrible. No one wants to bother with expensive research on alternative fuels when gas is cheap. What we need to get rid of our addiction to oil.

The solution to a heroin addict isn't cheap heroin.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:08 PM
 
1 posts, read 371 times
Reputation: 10
Biodiesel is not the same thing as "Veggie Gas" or using waste grease from restaurants, which is properly called SVO (straight vegetable oil) or WVO (waste vegetable oil). Biodiesel is the combination of regular diesel fuel with a small percentage of vegetable oil (5% in B5, 10% in B10, 20% in B20, etc....). It seems true that biofuels that come from corn or soy will raise food prices (not that soy can really be considered food, or viralized transgenic corn for that matter) and probably don't even make sense in an energy audit where one compares the amount of energy put in to the amount of energy one gets out. I think that biofuels from other plants, algae or other organic materials have proven to be more sustainable for several reasons. They can be produced from can be produced from agricultural waste materials, biological organisms that are capable of growing on land that's otherwise unsuitable for agricultural use, grow faster or are considered perennial, weedy, or "invasive", use less water, or even require much less land area to produce. These are simply ecological niches and energy packets or wisdom about the complex richness and abundance of opportunities in nature that we are just beginning to discover and create technology for making use of. The other hugely empowering advantage that biofuels may provide is an escape from economies of imperialism and a revolution that will allow for the local bioregional production of biofuels at the grassroots level by everyday people from the Earth.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
5,475 posts, read 5,110,523 times
Reputation: 2411
Some use cooking oil in the engine. My friend put that stuff in his Chevy Lumina 3.1 L V6 with a disastrous end result. No more saving the planet stunts for his part.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:53 PM
 
458 posts, read 287,841 times
Reputation: 339
On the one hand, fossil fuels are on the way out and alternatives are generally a good thing.

On the other hand, fossil fuels will still be a primary fuel source for decades (at least) for three simple reasons: 1) they are extremely abundant and we have more than enough to last us a century (or more), 2) it's cheap, efficient, and simple to use, and 3) most people are willing to hurt the planet a little in order to make their lives easier. One might add 4) even synthesized fossil fuels are still a cheaper, more efficient, and simpler source of energy than wind/solar/etc.

So, while this biofuel station is neat, it's not significant in any way.
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