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Old 02-02-2011, 05:10 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Dunno why people think socialist favor gun control. I think some do, some don't, mostly for reasons like "the workers need to protect themselves from the capitalists". Here's an example:

Gun-Control & Workers' Militias: How Socialists View the Issues (http://www.socialistaction.org/bills1.htm - broken link)

an excerpt:

the oppressed will most likely need access to guns for defense, since the ruling class can be counted on to use all manner of violence to prevent any revolutionary change that would mean their overthrow. Socialists believe in the inalienable right of exploited and oppressed people to self-defense “by any means necessary,” as Malcolm X put it.

"Well regulated" did not mean that the democratic character of a citizens’ militia could be regulated right out of it for the class purposes of the rich!
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
What I'm saying is that in a capitalistic system, in which buyer and seller determine the value of a good or service, there is bound to be more freedom and respect for individual liberties than in a system in which the government has preeminent say over what a good or service is worth. Capitalism is more consonant with individual freedom than socialism.
Capitalism is a way of arranging an economy. Libertarian capitalism allows the markets to determine all aspects of social make-up, by placing as few restrictions as possible on what can be sold and how. OTOH, many authoritarian capitalist regimes massively restrict what sort of goods and services can be traded in.

Likewise, while most of the regimes we think of as 'socialist' (USSR, N Korea, Cuba) are authoritarian, with a central authority that intervenes in every aspect of people's lives, another, equally 'socialist' society could organise itself according to anarchist principles, under which there would be no state at all.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Hubard View Post
Capitalism is a way of arranging an economy. Libertarian capitalism allows the markets to determine all aspects of social make-up, by placing as few restrictions as possible on what can be sold and how. OTOH, many authoritarian capitalist regimes massively restrict what sort of goods and services can be traded in.

Likewise, while most of the regimes we think of as 'socialist' (USSR, N Korea, Cuba) are authoritarian, with a central authority that intervenes in every aspect of people's lives, another, equally 'socialist' society could organise itself according to anarchist principles, under which there would be no state at all.
Can you offer an example of an authoritarian capitalist regime? Do you mean countries like Singapore?
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:37 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Can you offer an example of an authoritarian capitalist regime? Do you mean countries like Singapore?
There are less of them now. Pinchoet's Chile was one.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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In a way, I think a more interesting question than 'is gun control good?' is 'is gun ownership good?'.

It seems many American gun-control opponents also enjoy owning large numbers of guns - far more than could be needed for any sort of self-defense.

I can see the attraction of a libertarian argument that says 'we should aim to have fewer guns in our society, but this must happen as a result of individuals feeling comfortable to give up their guns, not as a result of the state telling them they can't have them'.

What I understand less is the libertarian argument that goes, 'because we don't want the state to dictate our lives, there should be no gun control, and because there should be no gun control, we should all own as many guns as possible'.

What we eventually get to is the fact that extreme libertarian capitalism ('right-wing libertarianism') is the same as extreme libertarian socialism ('anarchism', or 'libertarian communism'), but the two are predicated on different readings of human nature. The former says that we should all be free to act exactly according to free will, and that the outcome of this will be that we all compete with each other, until eventually the most able and hard-working will live in untold wealth and the least able or hard-working will live in untold squalour. The latter also says that we should all be free to act exactly according to free will, but that because of our essential goodness the outcome of this will be that we work together to build a mutually supportive and loving society.

eta: this is not supposed to be a diversion, it is just a thought. see below for my response to your question.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:40 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
Can you offer an example of an authoritarian capitalist regime? Do you mean countries like Singapore?
Singapore is one (I already mentioned it FWIW). There are many in the Middle East - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iran. Russia and China, formerly authoritarian socialist regimes, are now authoritarian capitalist regimes, which just goes to show that economic and social policy can be changed independently of one another.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Bronx
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Yo you guys got out of topic wiht this, this was about Bloomie doing a gun sting in another state but it now this thread talks about socialism, we should get back on topic before the mods come out of no where like recgonizers of tron and shut this place down.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overdose View Post
I wanted to ask about that...who was getting the high taxation? Do you really think that its wrong to tax the rich more than the poor?
Yes, I do.
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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Apparently AZ Law enforcement isn't too happy with Bloomy's stunt.


Horne To NYPD: Stay In Your Own City - Phoenix News Story - KPHO Phoenix
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Bloomberg needs to mind his business. He is a socialist and doesn't believe in gun rights.

I can't wait until he gets out
Prime example of a man with too much $$$ and too much time on his hands. How about disarming his body guards.
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