U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-22-2011, 07:57 AM
 
4 posts, read 11,621 times
Reputation: 11
These are estimates but the point is real. (assumes overtime is 1.5x even though your talking closer to 2x)
one person 40 hours a week = 70k a year
one person 80 hours a week = 175k a year
two people 80 hours a week total = 140k a year

same work done, maybe even better because they won't be tired and stressed as hell and the mta saves 35k a year. meaning if you take the salary you pay two people. limit them to work 40 hours a week, you could replace two people doing 4 peoples work with 5 people doing 5 peoples work. less stress, more people employed.

I'm not saying they aren't doing the work, I'm saying that they shouldn't be put in the situation to do that much work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2011, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,060 posts, read 18,934,629 times
Reputation: 10093
An observation from another MTA employee (I'm a Tower Operator). As Motorman Mike observed back in post #6, it is possible for a repairman whose official salary is $67,000 to pull in four times that much--assuming that he's doing 'doubles' on a regular basis. And he certainly isn't the only one working like that.

Is it a good practice? I wouldn't say so. But whenever MTA makes noises about laying off the people who actually do the work for the subway and bus systems, well, then you've got fewer people who are supposed to keep the system operational at the same level...and you can whine and moan about cutting back on overtime all you want, but that work still has to be done. So they really have no choice but to look the other way and let some individuals make outrageous amounts of money.

Incidentally, as a tower operator, I'm in a title that isn't permitted to work doubles. It's possible for a tower operator to make over $90,000 annually (and I know some who have!) but to manage it, you've got to make yourself what we call a 'transit wh*re.' That is to say, you're sacrificing your life for your job. I'm not a member of that club.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-26-2011, 02:48 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,477 times
Reputation: 10
hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-26-2011, 03:55 PM
 
20 posts, read 30,655 times
Reputation: 20
This is shocking, I'm sure you have to have major connections to get a job like this. For example I'm between jobs right now and I'm sure there's no way in hell I will land this job. So in short whose ass do these people kiss to get this job. I'm sure repairing a subway car is not much different from a car or airplane mechanic and they get paid WAY less.

On a side note, not all city employees have it this easy. My sister is the accounting manager of a city department and she only makes about 70k a year. This is after earning her masters and working at the office for more than 10 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 04:28 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,901 posts, read 4,319,155 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotormanMike View Post
You know , I am going to play devils advocate here ...

Politically , I am personally on the right. I have gone to tea party events , consider myself politically conservative.

I also work for the MTA as a subway motorman , and most of the jobs down here as you know are union positions. The car repairman you are talking about , make about the same hourly wage we make give or take a few cents and hour ...

Now , I have never been a hard core union supporter in the past before I took this job , and like most people before I came down here to work I would read stories like this and they would make me mad too ... but the truth is , for a guy to quadruple his salary down here on O.T. , all the guy does to do that is work work work , work , and then work some more. He must pull doubles practically every day.

In my first two years on the job as a motorman I made between 5-6k in O.T. each year on top of my normal salary which wasn't even adding 10% total onto the base pay , which at the time was about 67k/yr and now is about 70k/yr ... and I remember how hard it was to do all that O.T. Now the Feds have restrictions to how many hours OT we can work as operational personnel , that car repairmen don't have , so a Motorman couldn't quadruple his base salary but senior guys can pick road jobs that are 10 or 10+ hours a day , but then to make all that extra money and pull in over 100k a year they are working 52 , 53 , 54 hours a week , and working all that time for it.

So just throwing it out there before you judge the guy and blame the union and act like the money was underserved , just throwing out for you another side to the story. Whatever job you do for a living , if you work hard and work a lot of OT don't you feel your pay is deserved when you get it? I wouldn't begrudge it to you ...

Just saying a friendly way -
You're missing the point!

We, as citizens and tax payers DO NOT wish to pay employees, such as the repairman, that much money---PERIOD!

We do NOT wish to pay retirement benefits based upon inflated salaries such as the repairman.

Moreover, a well managed business entity would seek to reduce costs, such as overtime pay, by hiring additonal workers, temporary workers, etc. Unfortunately, the Union won't allow the kinda management flexibility found in the private sector.

Also, in the private sector, overtime such as being discussed, would not be allowed unless it was directly related to increased profits!!! The MTA is NOT profitable---so, all that OT directly translates into increased expenses and busted budgets w/o any increase in profits and/or efficiency. Something which would not be allowed in the private sector.

Lastly, motormanmike, perhaps you just haven't learned to scam the system. I don't buy it that all those OT hours actually are hours worked. There are all sorts of scams utilized by public employees to increase their pay.

Just a few weeks ago, there were news reports telling how some MTA track workers had a scam going where they had some way to show that they had did work on track signals-which they did NOT do. Now, all the signals need to be rechecked or something. I'm sure you heard about it. Such is NOT an isolated incident.

Do you realize what would happen in a private non unionized business in a company/firm at the top of its field or industry? In such an incident as just described, whole departments would be fired!! In the case of 'theft' there would be criminal prosecution.

Lastly, this is the thing, citizens and tax payers simply do not and will not appreciate government employees being held to a standard below that of the average private sector tax paying citizen. Particularly, when government employees are being paid and/or receiving benefits and compensation above the average privately employed tax paying citizen.

Just for example, most government employees receive greater retirement benefits and medical benefits. Most privately employed workers have to pay significantly for medical insurance. Their defined benefit retiirement funds have been converted to 401ks. Most employees are subject to termination upon the whim of one's boss.

Why should government employees be compensated more than the average taxpayer whose taxes support their salaries and benefits? What employee is compensated more than his employer? Why shouldn't Unionist be held to the same standard of termination as private sector tax payers?

Take teachers, for example, not only do teachers get tenure, but so do non-teaching school workers. Clerks have tenure!!!! That is ridiculous! In the private sector tenure does not exist, and certainly not for low level barely competent CLERKS!

Lastly, you speak as if working 50, 52, 53, hours per week is extreme or something. This NEW YORK CITY!! 'Money makin' Manhattan'. In this city there are THOUSANDS who work 60 or 72 hours regularly every week. They do so in the most demanding of environments where a single F Up will get you fired! Many work as 'salaried employees' with NO overtime; but often with bonuses which reflect how hard, how smart, and how profitable your work has been. So, please I don't want to hear how hard you work. It's NOT impressive.

This is how it is with workers at the top of their fields and industry in this city. You unionists, MTA and teachers, for example, are at the bottom of your fields/industry. Yet, you all are and demand to be compensated as if your performance is tops. It is not! The subway sucks! The schools suck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 05:03 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,901 posts, read 4,319,155 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotormanMike View Post
Right and wrong ... Right on that retirement pensions are based on the average of the last 3 years worked , so guys in their last 3 years try and work all the OT possible to boost pensions. Pensions are nice but even once you retire and go on a pension you are only getting half the pay you were used to so most retired civil servants in all fields , transit , police , fire , etc. need to go get another job while collecting a pension. Let's say a motorman for example makes $90,000 average in his final 3 years and gets a $45,000 pension and loses $15,000 of that to taxes ... Thats $30,000 a year/52 weeks in a year ... or about $2300 a month take home. Minus $1000-$1500 a month for rent and that leaves $800-$1300 a month for electric , gas , cable , phone , car payment and gas (if any) , auto insurance (if any) , food , laundry , school payments (if any for kids) , etc. There is nothing wrong in trying to boost a pension. People treat it as if it's some kind of evil thing to do. 45k a year in NYC BEFORE taxes is nothing , even in the outer boroughs like Brooklyn where I live.

Where you are completely wrong is on the reasons why there are constant delays caused by construction , electrical work , etc. ... Here is the REAL reason why that happens. The MTA hires outside contractors to do most of the work. The MTA always hires the LOWEST bidder for the contracts. Sounds great , right? Wrong. What happens is when they hire the lowest bidder , the contractor usually cannot get the job done in time and although when they can't the MTA has the option to terminate them and the contract , for legal reasons , particularly getting sued if someone gets hurt , No contractors will come in and finish a job another contractor started , so the MTA then gets left stuck with the original contractor and that's when cost overuns and delays start and continue. If the MTA and other government agencies in general were allowed to accept the smartest and the best bids for jobs and not simply the lowest bid , these problems would happen much less if at all.
I'm sorry, the above is one giant BS whine!

For one thing, the claim that civil servants retire on 50% salary is not true. I, personally, know of, at least one, retired with 90%! Over the years, I've known others.

Yet, even at 50%, this is better than the average privately employed working class and/or low level clerical worker tax paying citizen. This is the point. Many, if not most of these workers retire on little more than Social Security. 50% of their former salary w/b a g_dsend.

Moreover, the average middle class privately employed worker in this city works harder and performs in their job at a MUCH higher level than the average Civil Servant. Let me be specific, government office worker vs privately employed non-union worker.

Have you ever done busines with any city department on a daily basis? Its a freakin joke! The quality level of the people behind these counters and desk is abysmal. Customer service is a laughing matter. The overwhelming majority of these people would NEVER be capable securing employment in the private sector. Its like a 'jobs program' rather than an efficient use of my tax dollars. Don't even try to imply that these people work hard---they don't.

From personal, specific, experience, I can tell you, for example, that civil servants, court employees, city workers are an incompetent lazy lot. That attorneys and their offices must curry favor in order to get basic service. The contrast between court clerks and their counter parts who work for law firms is startingly. Known of those court clerks would ever be employed by a firm orf any substance--known!

Move up to the State level and things get slightly better, yet still does not approah the quality and effort found in a law firm. Move up to the Federal level and finally something approaching reasonable service can be found. Yet, again, still not equal to privatley employed non union law office employees.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 3,192,899 times
Reputation: 1315
Absurd..almost as bad as the MTA ushers and shopkeepers making $145k - $166k, 3x base after Overtime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,060 posts, read 18,934,629 times
Reputation: 10093
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolerstomp View Post
This is shocking, I'm sure you have to have major connections to get a job like this. For example I'm between jobs right now and I'm sure there's no way in hell I will land this job. So in short whose ass do these people kiss to get this job. I'm sure repairing a subway car is not much different from a car or airplane mechanic and they get paid WAY less.
Have you taken any exams for transit when they've been given? You don't have to kiss anyone's ass to get the job. But once you get it, you do have to have a friend somewhere downtown to make sure that you get the overtime, to the exclusion of anyone else who might want some.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 06:22 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,901 posts, read 4,319,155 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotormanMike View Post
Right and wrong ... Right on that retirement pensions are based on the average of the last 3 years worked , so guys in their last 3 years try and work all the OT possible to boost pensions. Pensions are nice but even once you retire and go on a pension you are only getting half the pay you were used to so most retired civil servants in all fields , transit , police , fire , etc. need to go get another job while collecting a pension. Let's say a motorman for example makes $90,000 average in his final 3 years and gets a $45,000 pension and loses $15,000 of that to taxes ... Thats $30,000 a year/52 weeks in a year ... or about $2300 a month take home. Minus $1000-$1500 a month for rent and that leaves $800-$1300 a month for electric , gas , cable , phone , car payment and gas (if any) , auto insurance (if any) , food , laundry , school payments (if any for kids) , etc. There is nothing wrong in trying to boost a pension. People treat it as if it's some kind of evil thing to do. 45k a year in NYC BEFORE taxes is nothing , even in the outer boroughs like Brooklyn where I live.

Where you are completely wrong is on the reasons why there are constant delays caused by construction , electrical work , etc. ... Here is the REAL reason why that happens. The MTA hires outside contractors to do most of the work. The MTA always hires the LOWEST bidder for the contracts. Sounds great , right? Wrong. What happens is when they hire the lowest bidder , the contractor usually cannot get the job done in time and although when they can't the MTA has the option to terminate them and the contract , for legal reasons , particularly getting sued if someone gets hurt , No contractors will come in and finish a job another contractor started , so the MTA then gets left stuck with the original contractor and that's when cost overuns and delays start and continue. If the MTA and other government agencies in general were allowed to accept the smartest and the best bids for jobs and not simply the lowest bid , these problems would happen much less if at all.
I'm sorry, the above is one giant BS whine!

For one thing, the claim that civil servants retire on 50% salary is not true. I, personally, know of, at least one, retired with 90%! Over the years, I've known others.

Yet, even at 50%, this is better than the average privately employed working class and/or low level clerical worker tax paying citizen. This is the point. Many, if not most of these workers retire on little more than Social Security. 50% of their former salary w/b a g_dsend.

Moreover, the average middle class privately employed worker in this city works harder and performs in their job at a MUCH higher level than the average Civil Servant. Let me be specific, government office worker vs privately employed non-union worker.

Have you ever done busines with any city department on a daily basis? Its a freakin joke! The quality level of the people behind these counters and desk is abysmal. Customer service is a laughing matter. The overwhelming majority of these people would NEVER be capable securing employment in the private sector. Its like a 'jobs program' rather than an efficient use of my tax dollars. Don't even try to imply that these people work hard---they don't.

From personal, specific, experience, I can tell you, for example, that civil servants, court employees, city workers are an incompetent lazy lot. That attorneys and their offices must curry favor in order to get basic service. The contrast between court clerks and their counter parts who work for law firms is startingly. Known of those court clerks would ever be employed by a firm orf any substance--known!

Move up to the State level and things get slightly better, yet still does not approah the quality and effort found in a law firm. Move up to the Federal level and finally something approaching reasonable service can be found. Yet, again, still not equal to privatley employed non union law office employees.

Now here's the rub, forget about the wasteful use of my tax dollars, look at it this way: why should my clerks, superior workers or they wouldn't have their jobs. Why should should they finance the retirement of inferior court clerks at a retirement compensation greater than their own? Why? What basis of reason is there? Why should my city workers have benefit of a defined benefit 'pension' while my clerks and all law firms employees are subject to a 401K? In what private business world do inferior workers receive superior compensation?

****

Now, I'll quickly adress your retirement numbers way above.

Dude, if you and others like you fail to make the proper decisions to prepare yourself for retirement, why whine to the tax payer and expect us to finance your personal failure. I don't get it.

With regard to retirement, IF you as a Transit worker, a motormen, are facing a RENTAL circumstance at retirement age, you have made a mistake! I cannot emphasis that fact enough. Every advisor, every book, every magazine article, every tv show on retirement implores the reader/watcher/client that paying RENT is a sinkhole and instructs to purchase a home!!!! You should now this, and if you don't, oh well.

The reason why is rather simple, over a working lifetime and a mortgage term of 20 or 30 years, the mortgage s/b paid off, or nearly so with a mtge payment so miniscule as to be amazing in terms of living expenses.

Additonally, in this city and region, you would have amassed equity in the home from a few to several hundred thousands of dollars. I personally know people, middle class, with 1 to 2 million in equity from a single home in the present market. The least I personally know of is generally in the 500k range. Many of these people are Transit workers, Cops, and Teachers. In fact, I've never known a teacher who wasn't well retired.

Really, what private sector employee gets to retire after 20 years with FULL pension?

What private sector employee gets to run up their last year salary to a level far exceeding their base pay in order to inacrease their retirement compensation?

The answer is NONE!

So, why should taxpayers fund such ridiculousness? The benefit of which is not available to themselves.

Back to your retirement scenario, if you don't have benefit of a paid off home and/or the equity thereoff, that's your problem NOT the tax payer. If you failed to make other proper retirement plans, again its not on the tax payer. If the Union didn't advise you well regarding your retirement, again it ain't on the tax payer!

Besides, do like other civil service workers who do their 20 and out; get a second career and live the life with your new salary plus pension. Better yet, with the paid off/ or nearly paid off house, car, and paid off everything else necessary for middle class life, live of the new salary, bank/invest the pension, and by the time you're really ready to retire---you can sell the house/ ove to Florida and live like a King! With a 3000 to 4000 square foot McMansion with 3 or 4 bedrooms, master suite, master bath, pool and new car and Winnebago in the drive. All paid for in CASH!

I've seen this up close and personal, many many many people. Florida is filled with them. Cops, teachers, social workers, transit workers.

So, please stop the whine, thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-27-2011, 10:50 AM
 
217 posts, read 370,166 times
Reputation: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
An observation from another MTA employee (I'm a Tower Operator). As Motorman Mike observed back in post #6, it is possible for a repairman whose official salary is $67,000 to pull in four times that much--assuming that he's doing 'doubles' on a regular basis. And he certainly isn't the only one working like that..
Could you tell us how you got this job? How much competition was there for this job? Who decided that you were better for this job than the other applicants and what criteria did they use?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top