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Old 05-23-2011, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,633 posts, read 11,586,461 times
Reputation: 4232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
I happen to be in a lesbian relationship and laughed at how silly some of the comments on here are. Honestly, opinions like the OP's don't really bother me or my partner. We could really care less if marriage is legalized or not. What matters is that we still have the same legal rights to a certain extent. I do not believe gays should raise children (adopt, etc.) because I think a child is best raised in an environment where there is a mom and a dad. I do not believe it is healthy for them as it goes against nature.
I find self loathing so sad. Very sad.

 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:02 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,677,302 times
Reputation: 4168
I dunno if this is a troll thread or not, but I can say the same argument was made about whites and blacks marrying..and that was only 40 years ago. There was a time when women were not allowed to be anything but housewives using this same argument...IVY League schools didn't even allow women until around 1970!!!

And we all now know (well at least most of us I hope) that it was wrong to deny these people basic right that others took for granted..and gay marriage is no different. Marriage is only how we define it..it is not innately man and women..we just say it is...therefore we can change it to be whatever we want..and it should be 2 consenting adults...whatever gender/race/height/weight/religion they may be.

And that's all I will say about this thread b/c I want it to go away.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
933 posts, read 953,439 times
Reputation: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
This is so silly.What's important is that both parents instill the right values in their children. Do you think it is better for children to grow up in a household like Arnold Schwarzenegger's,where they now know their father was screwing the help and that they have a bastard 1/2 brother( at least one),because it was a house with a female mother and a male father ? How absurd.
I KNEW this argument was going to come up! Lol. I don't think that is right either! Kind of a sad state of affairs, isn't it, that people are making the case that gays can properly raise children. It would be incorrect to say 'their' because obviously you can't reproduce with a member of your own sex. I find behavior like Schwarzenegger's to be as deplorable as everyone else thinks it is. But comparing that with gays raising children is what is really absurd. What matters most is the psyche of the child that is raised. You may not damage them by having two parents of the same sex raise them, but you are definitely playing Russian Roulette and that's enough to make a case against it right there. Most lesbians I hang out with have pretty moderate views btw. We aren't all bed-hopping liberals that burn Bibles like some would imagine... *sigh*
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
 
4,556 posts, read 3,808,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiogirl22 View Post
But what do I know. I am a woman and I belong in the kitchen

This is a fine point you make.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:28 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,900 posts, read 4,778,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klato View Post
Dude - get real! Marriage is not that holy and itís not really working out in our society! What happens in your bedroom should stay in your bedroom. (This goes for straight, gays, trannys, etc) Your sexuality should NOT define your character but sadly in our society we have created stigmas about sexual preferences. As long as a person does not interfere in my life in a negative way being mentally, physically or emotionally then I have no issues. Yes, they are some gays that are a little bit too annoying but they are also countless straights that are just as annoying. I believe they are worse things negatively affecting the minds of children like ignorance (which clearly you have displayed), violence, drugs, wars, guns, obesity, etc.
Many of the thought and opinions posted to this thread concern themselves with individual freedom and give NO credence to the construct of society as a whole.

Whether the benefit of one societal construct outweighs the other. To simply view the matter of gay marriage and homosexuality overall as one of individual rights is to ignore the 'whole' consideration of society.

For example, a society could choose to allow all individuals to act and think in a purely individualistic and self-centered and self-pleasing manner, disregarding the greater whole. Doing so would create a society w/o an order nor a construct.

There is and never has been a society without a contruct.

While such may have some appeal, the effect is disorder, anarchy if you will. a society w/o definition, without order, w/o a construct, is not a society at all.

So, the ultimate question is, what order, what and whose definition, and what construct?

For all eternity, the order, the construct and the definition, has been based upon the obvious and the inherent. The nature of sex has been defined by the natural union of male and female. Marriage is defined by the natural union of man and woman. Children are the issue of man and woman.

Such is the order, the definition and the construct. The basis of which is inherent and obvious.

Again, the ultimate question is whether society is to be redefined, reordered and reconstructed!!

Individual freedom and rights, as has been propagandized is NOT the issue, as many of our individual freedoms are restricted, defined and ordered for the purpose of constructing the society we have choosen.

The gay agendists, under the guise of individual and/or civil rights, are about the business of re-constructing society, and thereby the inherent, the obvious and the norm.

In order to accomplish this, society must be disciplined and penalized, and our children indoctinated.

****

To argue that the present construct has problems, isn't functiong well, and so there is no value to preserve, is an unobjective, ignorant, and nonthinking viewpoint.

It could easily be argued that the prospect of gay marriage is the ultimate sympthon of societal degradation. That to correct the errors of the present societal construct w/b to reject the proposal and to begin the process of stengthening the construct and thereby reversing the degradation.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,633 posts, read 11,586,461 times
Reputation: 4232
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
.... But comparing that with gays raising children is what is really absurd.
One of my best friends was raised in Greenwich Village by two mommies.He is in his 40's now,a very successful restauranteur,married(to a woman),father of 3 and one of the most normal,likable guys you will ever meet.His two mommies(one of them his biological mother) by the way recently celebrated their 50th anniversary as a gay couple.

It's not who raises kids,it's how they are raised.

To say that gay couples can't or shouldn't raise children is just plain bigoted.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
933 posts, read 953,439 times
Reputation: 1315
JColtrane- wow, that was a lot to take in for one post! But basically it is stating the same thing I said in so many words- that how children are raised is an issue for the SOCIETY, not the INDIVIDUAL. I am not self-loathing at all btw. I just personally believe that childrearing is not an automatic right (it's not), especially if it's not your kid. Should be obvious logic to most. I'm sure there are examples of people who grow up normal even though they were raised in a gay household. Of course you will always have a few stories like that. That isn't the point and it most certainly does not make me prejudiced. The point is it goes against what is best for society and deregulates the natural order of things. Evidently a lot of people agree with me on that, otherwise it would be legal everywhere already.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:45 PM
 
Location: BK All Day
4,212 posts, read 5,005,349 times
Reputation: 3729
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
To say that gay couples can't or shouldn't raise children is just plain bigoted.
Hetrosexual couples have always raised such amazing children though?

I'd rather have 2 mommies who loved me than be 15 with a 30 year old mother who pawned my off to my grandma for the weekend because she wanted to go to cancun with her boyfriend for the weekend and never came back.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:49 PM
 
4,556 posts, read 3,808,781 times
Reputation: 3459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
One of my best friends was raised in Greenwich Village by two mommies.He is in his 40's now,a very successful restauranteur,married(to a woman),father of 3 and one of the most normal,likable guys you will ever meet.His two mommies(one of them his biological mother) by the way recently celebrated their 50th anniversary as a gay couple.

It's not who raises kids,it's how they are raised.

To say that gay couples can't or shouldn't raise children is just plain bigoted.

To be fair, your friend is a man who was raised by two women and not two men. I'm no sociologist, and I haven't conducted decades long studies on the matter. But there might be something to be talked about when it comes to the influence on sexual identities of a young boy raised by two gay men, or a young girl raised by two gay women.

And just to clarify, both options are obviously better than being passed around the system your entire childhood (IMO). But I'm just sayin, I don't think you can sit there and say matter of factly that these situations have zero unintended effects.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
6,633 posts, read 11,586,461 times
Reputation: 4232
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastBoundandDownChick View Post
JColtrane- wow, that was a lot to take in for one post! But basically it is stating the same thing I said in so many words- that how children are raised is an issue for the SOCIETY, not the INDIVIDUAL. I am not self-loathing at all btw. I just personally believe that childrearing is not an automatic right (it's not), especially if it's not your kid. Should be obvious logic to most. I'm sure there are examples of people who grow up normal even though they were raised in a gay household. Of course you will always have a few stories like that. That isn't the point and it most certainly does not make me prejudiced. The point is it goes against what is best for society and deregulates the natural order of things. Evidently a lot of people agree with me on that, otherwise it would be legal everywhere already.
What is best for society is the long term stability of relationships and family structures and the instillation of the correct values.Heterosexuals don't seem to be any better at that than gay people,at least not from what I have seen.
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