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Hey scat I just came across this thread...I am a little late but here is my 2 cents. I read about the new condos going up and I was happy to see this kind of development coming to the community. Although some may see this as detrimental to the community..I see it as providing an alternate type of housing for those with the resources that may move out the community rather than stay and keep the money local, or to those that have otherwise shunned the community and may not consider it.
Why keep creating the endless low-income housing...healthy communities have a mix of housing....Mott Haven is heavily weighted towards the bottom..so why not mix in other types of housing to help intergate the neighborhood more..and bring some more money too!
One market rate luxury condo in a neighborhood with an average income below the poverty line.
I am not happy. Neither are the people in that neighborhood. That should have been low income housing like all the other units on that block. That condo benefits no one but the developers.
This is not mixed income housing either, it's aimed at those with money. Problem is those with money will not want to live in that building. It's not cheap and the area is horrible. The murder rate in that swath of Mott Haven is over 50 per 100,000. The crime rate is out of control. It's crime ridden.
Here is a nice video of the immidiate area around this development:
Yes....and I am one of those people..and there are many others that are doing the same....the same people that are buying the new $600,000+ homes for sale across Mott Haven are a good example. These condos are providing an option to those who either want to trade up to something nicer who may otherwise leave, or an option to those outside of the community who may only know of the Mott Haven stereotype.
The new housing option is a great resource for the community and the city....and I hope that we can retain people that may otherwise leave the community in search of this type of housing...and keep their money local for the bodegas, restuarants, and other business owners and community establishments.
You are very rare and can you afford a 700,000 apartment? Would you want to on E 140th and Third Avenue? The homes in the South Bronx going for $600,000 are bought by investors who rent them out to locals. I see it all the time. In the past the houses were cheaper (many were subsidized) and locals would buy them, rent the other apartments out (they are multifamily). Today they are just out of reach.
This is exactly the kind of housing the people of Mott Haven should be fighting but they have to many problems to even know what is going on. Fortunately this is an oddity and not a trend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81
There is such little housing available in this city, someone is always willing to pay. That's why the prices are so high. It's simple supply and demand economics.
If someone buys this even to invest it wouldn't be the greatest idea becuase the property can only go so high. In this area property is reaching it's peak. This is already overpriced to begin with. Anyone who lives there honestly is an idiot. For that kind of money you can live in so many better areas. Homes even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apvbguy
maybe you haven't noticed the trend of the last 50 years or so, but most people flee NYC when they can afford to, the affluent can be found mostly in manhattan, and small pockets of the boros and the rest of the people are either happy in NY or trapped, most of the people in the s. bronx fall into the trapped category.
You even see this trend continuing with the recent immigrants, once they get established and successful they move on. The only ones who stay are the ones who haven't been able latch onto prosperity
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
ok how much is a mortgage on a $795,000 condo....at least $3000 a month im guesstimating.....who is seriously going to pay that now? when harlem wasnt gentrified you could get a 3 story brownstone for less than that....mott haven isnt gentrified and look at the prices.....you people are sheep
Most people are idiots. Not only are there so many better investments but who would want to live there for that kind of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogplife
Thats sad. Too bad many people don't pay attention to the other class in economics when they discuss demand curve and pricing. A market is only as strong as the fools who obsess. If people don't buy, prices drop to realistic levels. Cost of living doesn't go up by accident. The people raise the cost of living themselves. I know this sounds harsh, but this is exactly why those who went crazy in the housing market (lenders, buyers) should not get any help from the government. Let those people suffer the consequences and let the sensible people reap the benefits. New York and anywhere else is only as expensive as the people make it. Did we really have to rush to this stores to buy ipods when they first came out? (mp3s were just fine), i phones? etc. People walking around with i phones that don't/ can't use 3 quarters of the features. For all the control the government has over our lives pricing is one of the few things we have control over as people, yet we still allow ourselves to be manipulated. The same street dudes that we look down on for being stupid and having no education, destroying our neighborhoods are even smart enough to spend 3 dollars on white tees, but the so called educated allow themselves to be manipulated. That is truly depressing.
Again, people are idiots. It's better for those of us with a brain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause
Ogplife...that is precisely why these condos will sell...and are a welcome addition to the housing stock of Mott Haven. There are many always on the sidelines who are experts at criticizing, and ultimately do not understand how the city works. There are many that are willing to pay whatever amount to live in thjis city....and that includes the boroughs. Forget about what the intrinsic value is for these condos...or any other such commodity...it is simply supply and demand...and as the city is perpatually in demand...and moreso by the upper echelon nationally and internationally...these values will continue to rise and there will be greater price parity across the city as a result.
Trust me when I say this is not welcomed to the community of Mott Haven.
The developers of this condo realize most people are idiots. They will use it to fatten their pockets. Not better the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause
These condos prove wrong the naysayers and the many on the sidelines who choose to criticize rather than participate. Good luck with paying prices based on whatever intrinsic price you believe it is worth....you will accomplish very little in this city.
What about buying better property elseware? With a much high quality of life? Plenty of strong markets outside of NYC. Let the idiots fight for the scraps in NYC. **** what about buying property in better neighborhoods for starts. There is better property with a similar pricetag to this in other parts of the city. Better areas too. Those who invest might be able to turn a profit at the expense of others. But whoever moves in is very misinformed. Foolish. I expect a very high turnover rate. Then again with prices like that they just might be stuck.
I can hear it now, a six figure couple from LA relocating to NYC. Ask for information, get photos of the interior. Real estate salesman says "great neighborhood, 1000 times better then it was!". Couple interested, buy. Move in. Horrified. Haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogplife
Thanks for your wishes, but I would not buy in New York, too many fools that make the homes overpriced. I wish you the best of luck with your potential home.
Amen to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LP640
Oh really?
People actually flee when they finally realize they can't afford it anymore. With the high home prices in NYC, it would be easy to sell your house, move and still come up way ahead.
New York isn't Detroit.
People who move out of NYC do not only move becuase they can turn a profit off their home. There are many quality of life issues in this city. Remember, NYC's population is fueled by poor immigrants and young proffesionals. Not middle class homeowners. Most people in this city are renters. The real estate people are just growing filthy rich ripping people off left and right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
hey look at me i just paid $795,000 (near a million dollars) for a condo in mott haven, but i cant get fresh direct, and i still hear gunshots...kool
i can get a 3 bdrm house in cambria heights queens for $400K-$500K, a much nicer residential neighborhood....i'll take a long commute over quality of life issues anyday.
Exactly.
Here are more videos from the neighborhood. 700k, what a rip off.
The last moments of a small riot on Brook Avenue and E 138th Street after a young girl was struck and killed by a stray bullet a block away.
7thfloor...its not about "look at me I paid $800,000 for a condo in Mott Haven"..that is silly as the target for this development are not those looking for a trophy property nor bragging about how much they can afford. This development is just like the new housing that was being built in the late 80s and early 90s....to provide another resource for the community for those that would otherwise leave the area and take their money with them. It is also for those reconsidering what it means to live in this city, and the Bronx in particular.
Furthermore, you may think it is great that you can buy a house with a "better" quality of life in Cambridge Heights and it is a better choice for you..that's great. But the same logic applies to you....there are also those ridiculing you for spending $400,000 on a house in Cambridge Heights when they bought 30 acres in upstate NY and a 6 bedroom house for $300,000.....a better lifestyle for them as well....why ridicule you though? And why then ridicule those interested in living in Mott Haven at whatever price?
I am happy to see the development and another option for housing for those that may otherwise leave...let's keep the money local and intergrate the community with not only different people, but different income levels, and different housing too.
7thfloor...its not about "look at me I paid $800,000 for a condo in Mott Haven"..that is silly as the target for this development are not those looking for a trophy property nor bragging about how much they can afford. This development is just like the new housing that was being built in the late 80s and early 90s....to provide another resource for the community for those that would otherwise leave the area and take their money with them. It is also for those reconsidering what it means to live in this city, and the Bronx in particular.
Furthermore, you may think it is great that you can buy a house with a "better" quality of life in Cambridge Heights and it is a better choice for you..that's great. But the same logic applies to you....there are also those ridiculing you for spending $400,000 on a house in Cambridge Heights when they bought 30 acres in upstate NY and a 6 bedroom house for $300,000.....a better lifestyle for them as well....why ridicule you though? And why then ridicule those interested in living in Mott Haven at whatever price?
I am happy to see the development and another option for housing for those that may otherwise leave...let's keep the money local and intergrate the community with not only different people, but different income levels, and different housing too.
When you pay 800, 000 for a home in Mott Haven it makes it that much harder for someone with some sense to pay the 400 or 500 thousand it is actually worTH because you just set the market. Most things people do individually affects everyone else around them. Kinda like when someone steals merchandise from a store I hope you don't think you were unaffected by that. When these developers rob you for 3 or 4 hundred thousand dollars for that house the market is set and all the sensible people suffer the consequences. That is why you ridicule those who want to live in Mott Haven at any price.
7thfloor...its not about "look at me I paid $800,000 for a condo in Mott Haven"..that is silly as the target for this development are not those looking for a trophy property nor bragging about how much they can afford. This development is just like the new housing that was being built in the late 80s and early 90s....to provide another resource for the community for those that would otherwise leave the area and take their money with them. It is also for those reconsidering what it means to live in this city, and the Bronx in particular.
resource? this is a from a simple mortgage calculator on the web:
Result:
Monthly payment: 30 Years
Interest rate: 5.750%
Loan amount: $ 795,000.00
$ 4,639.40 a month
how is $4,639.40 a month a "resource" to a low-income community such as mott haven? how many people do you think actually live in the neighborhood that are in a position to afford this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause
Furthermore, you may think it is great that you can buy a house with a "better" quality of life in Cambridge Heights and it is a better choice for you..that's great. But the same logic applies to you....there are also those ridiculing you for spending $400,000 on a house in Cambridge Heights when they bought 30 acres in upstate NY and a 6 bedroom house for $300,000.....a better lifestyle for them as well....why ridicule you though? And why then ridicule those interested in living in Mott Haven at whatever price?
lets not jump out the window here ok....lets keep it confined within NYC's boundaries. i'm not ridiculing anybody i just said you can get a 3 bedroom house without extra common charges that a condo comes with for cheaper in a different area of the city, and that would be my preference as opposed to paying 4600 a month for a view of the projects and crackheads, methadone addicts, etc. on my way to work. thats just me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause
I am happy to see the development and another option for housing for those that may otherwise leave...let's keep the money local and intergrate the community with not only different people, but different income levels, and different housing too.
i'm happy too....but those prices are just not worth mott haven, no 2 ways around it. if i bought a condo there, i would feel that i was not getting the most for my money. why commit to 30 years (mortgage) of feeling that way? u tell me.
another thing, who in mott haven do you think has even enough to put a decent size downpayment on one of these things? something like 350K even the cheapest one, who you think got 25K sitting around in mott haven? the downpayment is prolly more than the average income of a family of four in mott haven lol. does mott haven even have banks? maybe 1 or 2 on the hub.
OGPLife...if those condos were 1 million dollars (and the higher end ones are not that far off) I would be happy because it is encouraging a more diversified community in a place that is far too segregated. Whether it is diversified via different people, or different classes..whatever...I welcome the diffent housing, and the money that will ultimately be infused in the community via the local businesses and services.
7th floor: What its worth to you and worth to someone else are 2 different things. Do you think paying $25,000 for a comic book is worth it? I sure don't...but there are many that do. The same logic applies to LIFE...you don't see the value in the condos in Mott Haven..that's great...but there are many that do and are buying..so your comment of "just not worth Mott Haven, there is no 2 ways around it" is wrong. It is only worth what people will pay (the market will bear) and that is what people are paying now. It's not worth it to you...that's okay...it's not worth it to me to buy a $400,000 in Cambridge Heights..and that's why I don't live there but many do.
I agree then that you should not buy in Mott Haven..it is not for everyone...and there are plenty of places in the world to live and invest...but let's not ridicule the developers for building the units, and let's not ridicule those that may buy...everyone is different..and what is important to you may not be important to them.
7thfloor...it is a resource to this community, because although you believe EVERYONE in Mott Haven is on welfare and broke, that is not the case. There is actually a sizeable and growing middle, 2 income earners, that do quite well. There are many that have left and have taken all their money with them....however those that remain in the community that do have the resources to purchase these units can now stay instead of moving. Are you that sold on the stereotype that it is not possible that there are people that have the money in this community to stay, invest, and improve the area instead of abandoning it like everyone else?
All of the new 3 family homes going up selling for $600,000+ and now Hunts Point will be seeing new 3 family market rate housing currently prices at $700,000. You may not think it is worth it and nobody will buy..but they keep getting sold and there are plenty of locals that are buying as well.
lol u dont get it
comparing a comic book to a living option is hardly feasible
u dont risk foreclosure buying a comic book
i'll tell you who a brand new condo costing that much is worth to: suckers
and the majority of mott haven = low income.
do me a favor come back to me and tell me 6 mos. from now how many units sold.
then you'll see how valuable it is. (the only 2 that sold so far were the commercial units)
even around my way they got new houses goin up for 500K in the hood
the trick is if i buy at least i have rental income coming in cause the majority of new construction is 2-3 fam.
they built 3 six story condos in my hood across the street from hammels houses.
a 2 bdrm is 250K. much more reasonable.
why 750K for mott haven again?
from the original article:
But in an impoverished area, private development can cut both ways, according to Miquela Craytor, the deputy director of Sustainable South Bronx, a land-use advocacy group. Investment in neglected buildings can improve streetscapes, she said, yet market-rate condos will be priced out of the reach of most of the neighborhood residents.
“Is it helping out the folks who have weathered the storm here?” Ms. Craytor asked. “Or is it just benefiting the new residents?”
I think investing in Mott Heaven is way better than investing in Far Rockaway (which is an area of NYC that actually scares me.) Yeah, Mott Heaven if full of poor and working people, but I have never been intimidated when I stroll along in that area. I have even walk by gang of kids on a corner. I never got bothered on the plenty of my trips there. I even did a photo tour of the area. I see good potential in the future here. But the two times I went to Far Rockway, oh I was bothered. I will never set foot over there ever again. So I dont think that people who invest in Mott haven are suckers, I think they are smart. In the future it will be worth it in the end. Just look at what happen and is happening in Harlem. Anything closer to Manhattan in always going to be gold. Believe me.
7th floor again you ridicule those that choose to buy as "suckers." The economics may not make sense to you...and you may not understand why those that buy do...but why are they suckers? Maybe they see value where you don't.....or is it your way and that's it?
I don't need to wait 6 months to tell you whats going on in Mott Haven now...those houses that are $600,000 are being sold..and the prices keep increasing. Those parking lots in the area are increasing rates, retailers moving in are mainstream like Target, Bed-Bath and Beyond...etc. The condos are just the continuation of the demand that the area has seen...and continues to see. Those houses that were selling for $100,000 just 7 years ago are now selling for $500,000+...looking back there were few that RECOGNIZED THE VALUE but many NOW wish they purchased, or changed their perception as "they were a steal" or "so cheap."
So is it illogical to think the condos that you see as overpriced NOW...7 years from now you too will be wishing you bought or saying "they were cheap." I say yes...and others are buying for that reason as well.
OGPLIFE...using your logic...I would suggest only paying .50 for a gallon of gas or not ever driving..or $1 for milk....or using candles instead of electricity......because there are too many people paying MARKET RATE for these commodities and driving up the prices. The same applies to housing...there are people paying $800,000 for a house just as much as there are people paying $3.00 for a gallon of gas and $5 for a gallon of milk....all market rates now. So now we all have to pay more for everything...such is life...housing is no different.
Cyrus it is cool that they do not recognize the value or potential in Mott Haven...few people have the vision to stray from the herd or find value where most cannot. I just dislike the ridicule, and calling them "suckers." It's like HS...anyone that is different, follows a different path, is ridiculed and made fun of...no different here.
Remember..these are the same people who were saying 7 years ago that Mott Haven was overpriced....and 5 years before that...and 5 years before that.....
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