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Old 06-15-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
961 posts, read 2,460,276 times
Reputation: 524

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterpetron View Post
Easy, you have a 1% vacancy rate in the city, partially due to the fact that in the last 40 years very little housing stock has been built, you still have far more demand than supply.

Until this grotesque system is eliminated, developers will not finance large-scale development that would be sufficient to start to hold down the market price increases. That will take hundreds of thousands, if not millions, more units built.

Mind you, the reason the prices of market rentals are so high is they need to make up for the badly reduced revenue of the controlled / stabilized apartments.

Were those 1 million apartments completely de-controlled / de-stabilized and tossed onto the market, the top prices would come down, and the bottom end would most certainly rise, meeting somewhere in between.
What about the 300k apartments that have been destabalized in the last decade? Not counting the ones that become destabalized each year by the tens of thousands. Why are more and more becoming destabalized yet there are no indicators in apartment prices to show any kind of correlation? I would understand if it were a small dent but, that is a pretty significant amount.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to contradict what you're saying, I mean, supply vs. demand makes perfect sense to me as far as pricing goes. But It seems there is something else contributing to the high prices as well. I just can't wrap my head around it.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:01 PM
 
1,123 posts, read 774,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
What about the 300k apartments that have been destabalized in the last decade? Not counting the ones that become destabalized each year by the tens of thousands. Why are more and more becoming destabalized yet there are no indicators in apartment prices to show any kind of correlation? I would understand if it were a small dent but, that is a pretty significant amount.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to contradict what you're saying, I mean, supply vs. demand makes perfect sense to me as far as pricing goes. But It seems there is something else contributing to the high prices as well. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Not too hard to figure out, you have had a significant increase in NYC's overall legal population from 2000 - 2010, and there has been a large increase in the illegal immigrant population in NYC over the past 10-15 years. Those 300K apartments have clearly not been enough, given the population increase combined with the steady vacancy rate of ~ 1%.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
961 posts, read 2,460,276 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterpetron View Post
Not too hard to figure out, you have had a significant increase in NYC's overall legal population from 2000 - 2010, and there has been a large increase in the illegal immigrant population in NYC over the past 10-15 years. Those 300K apartments have clearly not been enough, given the population increase combined with the steady vacancy rate of ~ 1%.
Good point about the population increase. I'm still hesitant to throw all those people off rent stabilized apts, especially since wages in the city no longer match the COL. Nevertheless, Good one.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:16 AM
 
106,242 posts, read 108,237,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha Anne View Post
Well, then, why don't you just sell the building if you get no profit? I'd like to hear your answer to that one.

And I have never lived in a NYC apartment in my life and own a single family house in Queens. I just think it is good that people can afford to stay in an apartment for decades, as MOST do not have a high income. None that I have met do!
never try to guess peoples incomes as you havent a clue about the million or so folks out there.
ill venture to say the few out of the millions you met are not representative of anything out there where you can make a statement like that. most have incomes that do allow them to pay market rents just like the other 14 million folks who arent in these apartments.

i didnt say im loosing money. nor do we own the building. we only held a percentage of apartments when it was built. the building was taken co-op decades ago as a way of having a light at the end of the tunnel and we own a bunch of apartments.

its a waiting game for us, we wait until the tenants die,move or accept a buy out offer on their lease and we sell the apartments. we have been paying 50 to 100k to buy out the leases of our central park building.

im saying the entire process does no one any good except the small percentage of people who have been tenants for decades. we are forced giving them tenure to our property while the other 95% of the public gets nothing out this .

folks argue over this control of rents that other long term tenants have like its helping them and its not.

all of you who have not been in your stabilized apartment for decades get nothing out of the is deal. even if you got a stabilized apartment the last decade the fact its stabilized means nothing. the rents today are real world and the increases have actually been more then non stabilized the last few years.

rents went down or stayed level in most free market apartments the last few years. stabilized apartments saw increases.

the rent differences happened decades ago when rents were held artificially low for political points. those days are gone now and have been for quite a while.

if you were lucky enough to have been in one for decades then your rent slipped behind market and you got lucky but today that isnt happening anymore.

what this crap did do is stop the building of rentals in nyc since the 70's.

we have no new rental building put up in decades unless they were luxury or low income.

it certainly hurt the selection we all have as tenants


by the way we own rent stabilized apartments but are tenants ourselves and rent elsewhere and yes we are tenants in a rent stabilized building so im on both sides of the fence..


i would say landlords are still making a profit regardless but its just wrong the way the laws work. my wife has lived in this apartment for 30 years and we catch a rent break too .

i would love to see everyone here be told at work they cant get fair market wage at whatever it is they do for a living because they have to give a portion of their earnings to those in their company who have been working for that company a long time.


no can say if rents would be higher or lower for the masses if these useless controls were taken off but there is no question the selection of available rentals would be better, newer and with more amenities as new buildings would have been put up but were not.

each area would seek its own level eventually like water and rents would be fair market for that area , higher or lower.

Last edited by mathjak107; 06-16-2011 at 03:29 AM..
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,200 posts, read 22,986,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
What about the 300k apartments that have been destabalized in the last decade? Not counting the ones that become destabalized each year by the tens of thousands. Why are more and more becoming destabalized yet there are no indicators in apartment prices to show any kind of correlation? I would understand if it were a small dent but, that is a pretty significant amount.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to contradict what you're saying, I mean, supply vs. demand makes perfect sense to me as far as pricing goes. But It seems there is something else contributing to the high prices as well. I just can't wrap my head around it.
You also need to factor the new yorkers who left for.the green hills.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:46 AM
 
106,242 posts, read 108,237,907 times
Reputation: 79786
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
I don't get it...on the RGB there are 4 members who represent the landlord's best interests, but you guys keep losing? so the "neutral" chair is not really "neutral" then?
the problem is the past dragged rents so far behind that even though its been okay now for more than a decade those older occupied apartments are still far behind what rents should be. we reached the point in time where many now have died, left or accepted buyouts so it has been getting better at a faster rate than ever before now as these far behind the markets apartments are sold or brought up to market..

i would say landlords are doing better now with the baby boomer generation dying or moving and especially since many buildings classified as stabilized are really co-ops and are no longer regulated once the tenant vacates.

but its still an un-fair deal for the rest of new yorks population as a select few get perks they never will and it may even be making every new yorker pay a higher rate but the jury is still out on that. the selection of nice apartments though is fact and they are in short supply..
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:47 AM
Status: "Wishing all the best of health and peace!" (set 10 days ago)
 
43,459 posts, read 44,172,248 times
Reputation: 20474
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkybumpkin View Post
They won't become homeless. They'll just have to move to somewhere that they can afford or do the roomie thing like the rest of us.
So you expect families and older people (singles or couples) to suddenly become roommates. Most young people don't want to live with older roommates whether they are single, couples or family units.
Also not everyone has the money to move away from NYC and it isn't always easy to get a job in new place especially if one is a bit older.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:19 AM
 
8,743 posts, read 18,343,139 times
Reputation: 4168
Chava what we expect is simply a more fair and equitable solution for the health of NYC and all it's residents. There are plenty of people who make sacrifices to live in this city and stay in this city..why exactly are we exempting anyone, or how dare we expect families to make sacrifices also? We should just keep the status quo so as not to impose on a privilegded group? Really?

I get that we cannot just end it, but it is being phased out..at a snails pace. Unfortunately, it won't be in my lifetime unless something very drastic happens in NYC...and if the near collapse of our economy didn't do it..I don't know what will.
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Crown Heights
961 posts, read 2,460,276 times
Reputation: 524
I found two very compelling articles arguing both for and against rent control.

This one argues against rent control based primarily on free market principle and states that it puts the tenant at a disadvantage by keeping them in the same environment and staying in a poorly maintained building.

http://www.walterblock.com/wp-conten...bomination.pdf

This one argues for it, citing examples in cities like Boston where once deregulated the rents rose 100%. It also points out that most regulated apartments are "soft" controlled (rent stabilized as opposed to rent controlled), rents rise but high enough for the landlord to make a return but not at the market rate.

Does rent control hurt tenants? | Dollars & Sense
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:48 PM
 
3,327 posts, read 4,346,225 times
Reputation: 2892
I'm going to assume very few of know how much fraud is associated with rent controlled/ rent stabilized apt's?

There's an entire black market built around it.
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