U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 06-22-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
2,734 posts, read 3,013,733 times
Reputation: 1255
Wow... very well said
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-22-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: New York NY
2,307 posts, read 1,974,304 times
Reputation: 3410
i didnt think the NY Times story was very good at all for a lot of reasons:

1) the fact that many african americans are moving down south isn't news anymore. it's history. thats been going on since the 1970s, when the crime wave made lots of new yorkers of all races and ethnicities leave the city

2) theres no context. LOTS of ethnic groups, as others have pointd out, have left the city over the years for a variety of reasons, economic and otherwise. for instance, did you know that the census now shows that there are NO italians left in little italy? Census Can't Find A Single Italian-Born Resident Of Little Italy

3) whats even less known is that lots of immigrants--for decades the city's lifeboold in terms of population--give up and not only leave (voluntarily) the city but the US as well. ive seen no hard figures but heard estimates from wpopel who work in immigration that its 10% to 15% of arrivals in total each year.

4)no mention was made of the fact that there are still middle class, professional, and creative back people, who still come to NYC every year to make their mark. we aren't attracting truck drivers or secretaries? so be it. we already have black people here who can do those sorts of jobs.

5)no mention made of the middle class black people here who have stayed and become urban pioneers. st. albans may not be what it was, but swaths of harlem, ft. greene, prospect heights, clinton hill, and bed-stuy have really improved, becoming the new "hot" areas for many middle class black people.

6) article did not get the point: the city is becoming more inhospitable for people in this lady's socio economic class. the civil servants, teachers, working class of ALL races are having a hard time in NYC. it ain't limited to black people.

7) and what really teed me off: the idea that NYC is somehow more 'hostile' to black people recently is just a crock. wasnt this lady around during the koch-guiliani years?, when cops shot lots of black kids every year and those mayors damn near celebrated the fact? when there wasn't a day gone by when one of them wasnt making a cheap point with white voters at the expense of black people? when black faces were virtually frozen out of city hall and the ones there were little more than figureheads? now THAT was hostile. i have issues with bloomberg for sure, but i've never felt he spent time playing the race card like those two did.

i guess i am a contrarian. i think on the whole, things are actually getting BETTER for black african-americans ( I wont speak for caribbeans and africans 'cause im not as familair with their stories). many neighborhoods, as ive said, are getting stronger, many are getting safer, the schools are getting beter (yeah, i know. its still three steps forward two steps back), the influence of african american culture in all its positive side is everywhere -- from churches to music to theater to sports to literature. there are black congress people, deputy mayors, commissioners who actually sometime have the ear of the mayor.

And its STILL a hell of a lot more fun than living in Atlanta!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 01:38 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 8,614,709 times
Reputation: 4168
I can't say it would be a damn shame to lose the black culture anymore than NYC losing it's Puerto Rican culture....are we also saying it's a damn shame that NYC has lost it's Irish culture? German culture? See a trend here?

These kinds of exoduses/outmigration of NYC is nothing new, as NYC was always a gateway city and how the rest of the country was populated. If the major Black influence declined in NYC like the Germans before them, it would only be following the normal and natural progression and nothing to be sad about. In fact, it was the only way we could get new groups to come in and stake their claim and add their culture to the fabric of NYC...if Germans never left...there wouldn't have been room for anyone else, including Blacks. Unfortunately, in order for many groups to succeed, or move up the social ladder, they typically had to leave NYC for new opportunities (Land/new business etc)...and this is no different for Blacks today...and that ain't so bad.

Don't be sad...it's normal and change is inevitable. That's what NYC is all about.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,401 posts, read 6,212,478 times
Reputation: 3569
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I can't say it would be a damn shame to lose the black culture anymore than NYC losing it's Puerto Rican culture....are we also saying it's a damn shame that NYC has lost it's Irish culture? German culture? See a trend here?
Well duh, it would be a shame to lose any part of New York City's cultures. This particular thread is about African-Americans specifically so what your point in bringing that up?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 01:49 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 8,614,709 times
Reputation: 4168
The point is it is no more a shame to lose the German culture than the Black culture. And since nobody had a problem with that..why have a problem with Blacks? Blacks are simply following the tried and true path out of NYC for other success/opportunities, just like every group before them. And with their exodus, a new group takes their place and starts the cycle anew...and that's what makes this city great...not sad.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Queens, NY e__e
654 posts, read 657,854 times
Reputation: 356
I fail to see how this is sad. People aren't going out kicking and screaming, a lot of people actually want to move, I know I sure do.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,401 posts, read 6,212,478 times
Reputation: 3569
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
The point is it is no more a shame to lose the German culture than the Black culture. And since nobody had a problem with that..why have a problem with Blacks? Blacks are simply following the tried and true path out of NYC for other success/opportunities, just like every group before them. And with their exodus, a new group takes their place and starts the cycle anew...and that's what makes this city great...not sad.
Well, don't assume that no one feels that way about the German or even Dutch influence that is no longer in NYC. The big difference is that those are events that occurred centuries ago, the black migration is occurring now. More to the point, there are specific things that could be adjusted to stem the flow.

The biggest example is that it is almost impossible for a middle class person to find affordable QUALITY housing in the city or any nearby suburb in NYC. Period. While there is no doubt this is a problem that more than just black folks endure, black folks more than anyone have been affected by it greatly. There just aren't many options to affordably live there.

An example I always used is what I pay to live in my neighborhood versus what one of my cousins pays to live in hers. I live in the middle of the city in Atlanta in a 2 bedroom 1 and 1/2 bath midrise condo that I own. My mortgage is $600 a month and HOA is $200 which includes all utilities except water...which is a yearly $100 bill (up from $35 a year a few years ago. grrr.) I live 3 blocks from a train station which I use to get to work each day and I am within walking distance of all the urban amenities one should expect living in a city (grocery, theater, bookstore, coffee house, shopping, etc).

My cousin who lives in Queens (in a not so great neighborhood) on the other hand has access to basically the same amenities and then some...but lives in a house that is subdivided into 4 four apartments and pays $1400/month without utilities. While she technically has more than one room and a bathroom, the extra rooms are divided by this particle board type stuff and the "bathroom" we are pretty sure used to be a closet.

Now imagine her, having lived her entire life in NYC, thinks when comes to visit me? Why put up with all of the costs and nonsense related to her neighborhood when she come here and basically have the same life with more than half the costs?

This is why so many black folks are leaving New York. Sure, in NYC you have access to so many options that no other city can compete with. Hell, you could put together Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston, Orlando, Dallas as one city and it still wouldn't even come close to matching what NYC has to offer. But what is the point of living there if you can barely afford it and you have to give up what are simple luxuries in other cities?

If the leadership in New York City doesn't get serious about making the city more appealing for working and middle class families, it's going to have a much bigger problem on their hands than black folks leaving in droves. And then what would New York be when there are nothing but rich folks and recent immigrants (most of whom relocate to another city just as soon as they can) and all of the regular folks and artists that make city what it is are gone?

Last edited by waronxmas; 06-22-2011 at 02:36 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 02:18 PM
 
86 posts, read 97,016 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
6) article did not get the point: the city is becoming more inhospitable for people in this lady's socio economic class. the civil servants, teachers, working class of ALL races are having a hard time in NYC. it ain't limited to black people.
Fair enough but this inhospitable climate as you put it is a big problem. I don't even have kids and I shudder to think what this city would be like if we had a teacher shortage.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 02:30 PM
DAS
 
2,155 posts, read 3,413,644 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I agree, the city is not only expensive to blacks but to other people aswell of other races and classes, unless everyone wants to hustle like a Dominicans and Jamaicans, this aint pirates of the Caribbean, or hustle like a Arab, Chinese and Indians still do like if its the silk roads Afghanistan 1296 AD. I wonder howlong Transplants will give in and give up when they realize NYC its not worth it anymore and not worth the sacrifice? I too plan on moving aswell. Im a 1st generation American, as I look back on my parents, there parents and ther parents also come from different parts of the world. I too will someday leave NYC and settle and start life somewhere else, its what we humans do. Transplants are doing it why cant us Natives do the same, but we New Yorkers have been moving out and settling across the U.S for quite sometime.
I have family in SC. My cousin down there has a very lucrative contracting business, and for quite some time many of his employees have been Mexican, because he says they come to SC with skills and are ready to hit the ground running. They have Mexican sections in their city. These sections are not ghetto, they are very beautiful sections with well cared for homes with big lots of land. There are sections of the city that lower income people can live in, however there are no real ghettos because SC doesn't offer the social services that NYC offers, so either you can afford to live there or you can't.

Now talking to my cousin a few weeks ago he hired a few Dominican transplants from NYC. He says the Dominican community is pretty sizable now.

There was already an African community their that starting arriving in the 1970's and is quite large.

The Black Carribean community has been there since the 1970's as well, quite a few marriages with Black Americans. Large corporations have relocated there, and many set up business from the beginning of their existence there.

This is a midsized city located halfway between Atlanta and Charlotte.

In the eastern part of the state around the beach areas, there is a sizable Italian community from the NE including the NYC metro area.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-22-2011, 02:33 PM
DAS
 
2,155 posts, read 3,413,644 times
Reputation: 806
I also have relatives that have relocated to San Antonio, TX, there is a good sized Dominican, and PR community there now.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top