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Old 06-22-2011, 02:36 PM
 
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Waronxmas...there is in fact a substantial number of affordable housing flooding the NYC market, and much of it for lower/working class residents. But this affordability problem is nothing new, and if isn't affordability it's crime, if not crime it's the economy, if it's not the economy it's the weather, and if it's not the weather it's more space, and if it's not more space it's more quiet/peace/less stress, and if it's not that it's because the "neighborhood is changing"...or other opportunities...and on and on...

All of these reasons are nothing new or unique today. You may think there is something unique about it..but if you look at NYC's history, and the demographic changes, what is happening today is nothing noteworthy at all. In fact..it should have really occured long ago, but the policies and politics at play have kept communities/people stagnant for decades.

People grow, people change, people seek different things in different stages of their lives...and this is nothing different. Sorry dude..but it's really normal.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:44 PM
 
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What about moving Upstate? It's more affordable, there are plenty of good schools, there is actually a strong African American history up here, there are Black folks in leadership positions, there is plenty of room, the cities(big and even small) have become increasingly more diverse, contrary to what you might here, there are a few mostly Black middle class neighborhoods and others that have noticeable to pretty high amounts as well and so on. If you are a Black entrepreneur, you could make some good money, if you have a necessary skill or business plan, up here. Heck, even if you are a barber, many of these smaller Upstate NY cities could be a good place to relocate. For instance, a city like Watertown is close to Fort Drum, an Army Base. I would have a side hustle cutting hair, as there were very few Black barbers or those that were in tune with the styles. Think about the guaranteed money soldiers get and how an established barber could make some good money. Same for say a soul food restaurant or a club.

Eventhough Syracuse isn't a Black mecca, we have Black folks in position currently like police chief, the athletic director at Syracuse University, the incoming Syracuse City School superintendant(AA and Hispanic), the CEO of the Syracuse Community Health Center, an assemblyman, judges, lawyers, and so on. Also, the say Yes to Education program with the SCSD allows for your child to have free college tuition. Granted the school performance isn't as good as it should be, you still get kids that go on to Ivies and some other very good colleges. Some middle class Black folks would probably like the Salt Springs neighborhood on the city's Eastside, which is a mostly black neighborhood that has many professionals. Others live in the Northern suburbs or Eastern suburbs, with a small , but growing number in the Western suburbs. I actually live in an affordable Northern suburban community and the principal for the elementary school zoned for my suburb is Black and the head of the elementary schools is also Black(North Syracuse SD). So, there are other parts of NY where Black folks can find a niche.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,791 posts, read 11,660,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Waronxmas...there is in fact a substantial number of affordable housing flooding the NYC market, and much of it for lower/working class residents. But this affordability problem is nothing new, and if isn't affordability it's crime, if not crime it's the economy, if it's not the economy it's the weather, and if it's not the weather it's more space, and if it's not more space it's more quiet/peace/less stress, and if it's not that it's because the "neighborhood is changing"...or other opportunities...and on and on...
I realize that. As I mentioned before both of my parents are New Yorkers as well as most of my extended family. I know about allll of the complaints since that's 90% of what they talk about during any family gathering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
All of these reasons are nothing new or unique today. You may think there is something unique about it..but if you look at NYC's history, and the demographic changes, what is happening today is nothing noteworthy at all. In fact..it should have really occured long ago, but the policies and politics at play have kept communities/people stagnant for decades.
While it's true that none of these problems are new, what is new is that people have far more options today. Before, people put up with it because there really wasn't many viable options to relocate to. In the last half century that has changed and as time has gone on NYC still has all these issues.

Granted, I agree that the city is much improved from years past. I've seen this with my own eyes since I used to spend most of my summers in Queens with my grandparents back in the 80s (my parents refused to let me have a Southern accent) and saw exactly what crack did to that city. So yeah, it's much better than back then.

I do believe though that the housing situation is fixable on a larger scale than just a few projects. The question will be is how the city will handle that issue in the next few decades.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Did you know that the Bronx was 75% Jewish for decades (I believe the 20s/30s/40s)...think about that today. 75% of a borough one specific ethnic group....sounds crazy doesn't it? They left their mark and other groups have taken their place...and life goes on...it's the NYC way. If you want communities to never change..you are better off in most other parts of the country.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
 
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Here's some interesting history I found out about pertaining to neighborhood change a little bit: Welcome to Flickr!
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Did you know that the Bronx was 75% Jewish for decades (I believe the 20s/30s/40s)...think about that today. 75% of a borough one specific ethnic group....sounds crazy doesn't it? They left their mark and other groups have taken their place...and life goes on...it's the NYC way. If you want communities to never change..you are better off in most other parts of the country.
I think you are not understanding point. I totally agree that cities do change and that change can happen rapidly. I live in a city that when I was born had 2 million residents in the metro that was 80% white, 15% black and 5% asian and latino. Now it is 49% white, 35% percent black, 10% latino and 5% asian. So I know all about how quickly things can change and change is inevitable.

But what is occurring right now with NYCs black population is a wholesale depopulation, albeit voluntary. Quite a difference between the two.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:25 PM
 
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It's not a wholesale depopulation, it's a normal outmigration from NYC, just like every other group before them.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
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Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/ny...egion&emc=ura1

The second page really sheds some light as to how a lot of black folk feel about how things have changed over the past few years... People continue to say how it's ridiculous to claim that race relations were better before but believe the article because I personally know not just a few people that feel the same way... this is why gentrification along with ridiculous overdevelopment can generally be a bad thing...

For one, because of this overdevelopment (one example: New-Style Street Signs Popping Up) that we're seeing, the COL is becoming nearly impossible for those living here in the city... granted, not every little nonsense issue that needs to be fixed or created is the mayor's fault, because a lot of these issues were raised by our government. That being said, there are many things that we could do without in this city especially when so many cutbacks are being made to things that are far more valuable to this city in education, police force and the FDNY ---> Hart Street ‘Bomberos’ Could Get Budget Ax The Bushwick News/BushwickBK

Second, this may sound a certain way but I will not sugarcode how I feel about this... this obsession to bring transplants/hipsters/yuppies into predominantly black and hispanic areas at whatever cost and then on the flipside show no interest or respect for the other parties involved ---->

(read some of the threads on city-data... how many threads do we see of "white female looking to relocate in harlem/wash heights/bushwick/bed-stuy" and how many posts do they get... how many threads do we see of black family, or black male/female moving to NYC where should I relocate... and what do those threads generally say... because I've read them, and what they usually do is not offer them diversity by moving into a mixed area or a predominantly white or hispanic area but rather send them to southeast queens...)

-----> has created this feeling among a lot of folks in the black community that they are better off moving down south since they are obviously not as welcome here as the transplants who we go through hoops for to appease...

Look, I want to make this clear that I have no ill feelings towards the hipsters/yuppies/transplants that move to these areas because they have no place to go and are dead broke... my problem lies solely with the brokers/real estate agents that convince these people that these areas are experiencing gentrification and white people are moving in and black people are moving out to convince them it's safe... what kind of garbage is that... and before you tell me i'm wrong look at how areas like Bed-stuy and Harlem are described on wikipedia after gentrification took place... I actually went to correct some of the things on the Bed-stuy page and almost immediately after I corrected that gentrification in Bed-stuy wasn't only college educated whites (as it claimed) but rather middle income blacks and I posted a link for verification, it was changed back and about five people went to correct it telling me that only whites were moving in as if it was a problem that I mentioned middle class black folk were part of the gentrification process as well...

Aside from the racial aspect of it (and yes that bothers me as well.) What bothers me the most is that a large portion of the black and PR people leaving NYC and the tri-state in general are those who are educated or have some kind of skill. The people replacing them are skilled and educated but living in NYC is not a long-term thing for them. They have no vested interest in creating a community or life here, frankly I can't blame them because it is the same push factors that caused AA's and PR's to leave that makes them so transient.

What I'm saying is, most of these people who left were part of the community and well established within it. These were not the welfare recipients and criminals people like to stereotype us as, they were ambitious or atleast they weren't going to settle for less. Had these people stayed it would've been a great contribution for both the short and long term of the city. I don't think what we are seeing now will last long as we are becoming less and less diverse economically and demographically.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
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So basically what I can gather from most people's opinions on here is because it has happened before to other ethnicities we should be completely okay with ignoring the fact that our black population is decreasing dramatically even though the circumstances that they are leaving under are vastly different than the other ethnicities that have lived here which paid their dues and moved on to bigger better things...

On top of that, we shouldn't address this issue and we should continue disregarding the threads or black folks that want to move here while waiting hand and foot for the white transplants that are coming here in droves...

Just trying to make sure I got what everybody was saying correctly...
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Status: "Good!" (set 16 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
The OP has a 1 sided view of the issue. I'm black and I don't feel one ounce of a connection to the story. I don't walk around carrying the burdens of the black race on my back. IF they cannot afford to live there, that's on them ont me. Nor will I have pitty on them.

I actually plan on moving to NYC in 2012-13...this story will not change my views and opinions of NYC and my anticipated move.

It's not the fault of NYC if some folks cann't afford to live there.

Many people cannot afford to buy a Rolls Royce, we accept that and move on. We don't protest RR and DEMAND that they lower the proces "for all".

Until you can afford a RR buy a Honda and keep it moving. No one makes a big deal about the expensive price of the cars.

But when blacks are being "Ran out" due to high cost of living...........STOP THE PRESSES!!!
I agree people should live where they can afford. However, there are underlying economic factors . As a black man moving to NYC, you will find out what they are. Black men do not flourish here.
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