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Old 06-22-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
2,750 posts, read 3,261,126 times
Reputation: 1274
Default It's sad to see this but it is happening...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/ny...egion&emc=ura1

The second page really sheds some light as to how a lot of black folk feel about how things have changed over the past few years... People continue to say how it's ridiculous to claim that race relations were better before but believe the article because I personally know not just a few people that feel the same way... this is why gentrification along with ridiculous overdevelopment can generally be a bad thing...

For one, because of this overdevelopment (one example: New-Style Street Signs Popping Up) that we're seeing, the COL is becoming nearly impossible for those living here in the city... granted, not every little nonsense issue that needs to be fixed or created is the mayor's fault, because a lot of these issues were raised by our government. That being said, there are many things that we could do without in this city especially when so many cutbacks are being made to things that are far more valuable to this city in education, police force and the FDNY ---> http://bushwickbk.com/2011/06/14/har...get-budget-ax/

Second, this may sound a certain way but I will not sugarcode how I feel about this... this obsession to bring transplants/hipsters/yuppies into predominantly black and hispanic areas at whatever cost and then on the flipside show no interest or respect for the other parties involved ---->

(read some of the threads on city-data... how many threads do we see of "white female looking to relocate in harlem/wash heights/bushwick/bed-stuy" and how many posts do they get... how many threads do we see of black family, or black male/female moving to NYC where should I relocate... and what do those threads generally say... because I've read them, and what they usually do is not offer them diversity by moving into a mixed area or a predominantly white or hispanic area but rather send them to southeast queens...)

-----> has created this feeling among a lot of folks in the black community that they are better off moving down south since they are obviously not as welcome here as the transplants who we go through hoops for to appease...

Look, I want to make this clear that I have no ill feelings towards the hipsters/yuppies/transplants that move to these areas because they have no place to go and are dead broke... my problem lies solely with the brokers/real estate agents that convince these people that these areas are experiencing gentrification and white people are moving in and black people are moving out to convince them it's safe... what kind of garbage is that... and before you tell me i'm wrong look at how areas like Bed-stuy and Harlem are described on wikipedia after gentrification took place... I actually went to correct some of the things on the Bed-stuy page and almost immediately after I corrected that gentrification in Bed-stuy wasn't only college educated whites (as it claimed) but rather middle income blacks and I posted a link for verification, it was changed back and about five people went to correct it telling me that only whites were moving in as if it was a problem that I mentioned middle class black folk were part of the gentrification process as well...
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:16 AM
 
762 posts, read 988,998 times
Reputation: 559
If blacks are moving out of Queens, who is moving in? Hipsters? Asians?
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: UWS
122 posts, read 133,622 times
Reputation: 89
You're right on most counts. I really don't know what the solution is; but there is definitely a problem. Gentrification is great for the well-off, not so great for working class people. This bull**** about it being great for every body is just that, bull****. Yes, it is good that neighborhoods generally get better while gentrifying; but what good is that for the locals if they're forced to leave their newly shiny neighborhood?

About Bed-Stuy, I've also read about professional and middle-class blacks being part of the gentrifying population and I can definitely picture real state agents trying to hide that fact.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: UWS
122 posts, read 133,622 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill83 View Post
If blacks are moving out of Queens, who is moving in? Hipsters? Asians?
Asians have always been in Queens. What you see now that you didn't see 15-20 years ago is transplants moving to Queens. Astoria is practically transplant capital of the world now (and I don't mean to sound snarky when I say that. It's just a fact).
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:43 AM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,525 posts, read 8,007,874 times
Reputation: 8079
Read some of the comments related to the article.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
2,750 posts, read 3,261,126 times
Reputation: 1274
Don't need to read subjective opnions that are probably mostly one-sided @ ron... I'd rather read the story of a legitimate case where this is happening and one of the very rare stories that actually address this issue... @ pizarrony exactly...
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,496 posts, read 6,622,563 times
Reputation: 3665
You make a very good point that I think often gets over looked when talking about what has been occurring with black New Yorkers for quite sometime now: They are leaving the city not because the place they are relocating too is "better" per se, but because NYC has done pretty much everything possible to make black folks feel unwelcome.

Look at how Mayor Dinkins was treated. He was blamed for every ill in the city (even though those ills were there long before he became mayor) and basically ran out of office. He was so reviled in some neighborhoods that Rudy Giuliani was elected. Think about that for a second. People hated the fact that he was mayor so much that they elected a Republican instead. If anyone doubts the racial elements of that, I'll refer you to the Crown Heights incident.

Counter that with DC and Atlanta that have had nothing but black mayors since the early 70s and revel in that fact. Not only that, they both actively promote their black population as a center piece of the city and as growing cultural and economic meccas for African-Americans as a whole. Counter that with how New York City barely even mentions that it was the center for Black culture for most of the 20th century.

The thing is though is that image that Atlanta and DC project isn't just myth, it is reality. When my cousins from NY come to visit me the first thing they say is how there are "black folks every where". For a while I didn't quite get what they were saying but then I took a step back and looked around. In Atlanta the mayor is black as well as the city council, so is the Chief of police the sheriff and most of the police and fire force, the same thing goes for judges and the top lawyers in the city, corporations not only have a large amount of their upper management that is black but it is not uncommon to see black ceos, black own businesses aren't relegated to just majority black neighborhoods (which is kind of an oxymoron in Atlanta) but all over the city, most of the newscasts feature primarily black newsreaders, even most of the main avenues are named after Civil Rights heroes not to mention that the name MLK Jr is spoken with Jesus like reverence.

Essentially, from top to bottom, black folks are prominent in every aspect of the city. Now, Atlanta isn't the land of milk of honey. If you relocate here you are not guaranteed anything if you are black and you have to work hard to achieve (more so than in other places since you've got so many "eyes on you"), but it definitely can not be denied the advantage of living in an city that actually wants to elevate black culture as one of it's "main attractions" rather than just a side culture.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,525 posts, read 8,007,874 times
Reputation: 8079
Quote:
Originally Posted by anon1 View Post
Don't need to read subjective opnions that are probably mostly one-sided @ ron... I'd rather read the story of a legitimate case where this is happening and one of the very rare stories that actually address this issue... @ pizarrony exactly...
Those remarks are no different than the remarks that will appear in this thread(your OP to name one) and on this ENTIRE CD Forum. All of a sudden it's a "Black topic" and now we are supposed to change the rules and focus on it. Give me a break.

Don't read the comments, I wasn't talking to you to begain with. I was making a general comment.

SOME Blacks cannot afford to live in the city anymore and we need to stop the presses and figure out why.


Go back to your "black" pitty party.

Last edited by Ron.; 06-22-2011 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Bronx
8,370 posts, read 7,350,249 times
Reputation: 3814
Blacks is a broad statement, blacks can be anybody from Jamican, Dominican, Guyanese, Belizian, African, or Ehitopian Israeli etc. The only African Americans I knew that left the city is the ones that were in the military, it was the only direct ticket out of leaving the urban crime and cesspool that this city had to offer especially in public housing and tarnished high schools. They all moved to the south. I dont blame them for leaving, they have alot of open space, greenery and hey you can spit all the sunflower seeds and peanuts all they want plus its the land of God and Guns. Lol. But all jokes aside African Americans are leaving the city and its sad to see it happen because they are progressive people and they help shape and form the culture of this city along with the Jews, Italians, Puerto Ricans and Irish and played a major part in shaping the culture of this city in various forms of art. Africans Americans are not the only ones leaving this city, The White Flight is still in effect for many longstanding white areas of South Brooklyn and central, North East Bronx are moving out towards the burbs. The Puerto Ricans are also leaving the city either moving to PA or Florida in droves. Half of my block in Mott Haven has either moved for Orlando or Allentown and Reading PA. Traditional New Yorkers of AA, Ricans, Italians, Jews, and Irish will be greatly reduced in favor of new groups of more dominant immigrants such as Dominicans, Chinese, Guyanese, Mexicans, Jamaicans and Russians. But there is also a wave of migrant movement by whites from other regions. Example Astoria Queens, the Greeks and Italians have now been replaced by generic white Americans, no offense if I used that term. I feel sorry for many transplants of any race who are tricked into coming into NYC and work there butts off for a salary similar to what they make back home in another state and have to bunk up with 3-4 roomates in Manhattan or gentrified areas of Lower Manhattan, Uptown, Western Queens and Western Brooklyn with an insane COL spectrum. The city will move on as traditional New Yorkers branch off they will easily be replaced by Asian, East Euro, Mexican, Hisp/Anglo Caribbean, Afro/Arab immigrants and white American transplants. people are a commidity here in this city. I too will someday hope to leave NYC, I have seen things get better like nightlife and at the sametime I also have seen things degrade like schools, subway service neigborhoods, civil liberties. As for the Parades the city needs to reduce the Columbus day parade, St Pattys, Puerto Rican day parade and African American parade in Harlem and expand on Dominican, Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Russian. Even have a wasp parade and hipster parade for the transplants. I wonder what Mr. Klebowitz is thinking when he read this article in his UWS Coop on his ipad2?

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 06-22-2011 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,496 posts, read 6,622,563 times
Reputation: 3665
Oh, one more thing to add:

Both of my parents are from Queens (around the Jamaica/St. Albans area) and relocated to Atlanta back in the 70s for basically the same reasons stated in the article. Even though my father worked in telecomm, they could not afford a house in the city to accommodate the big family they wanted to have even in Queens. They looked at moving to Long Island or some where upstate, but got caught up with having to deal with Red Lining (who's old enough to remember that).

They tried to stick out as they are both quintessential New Yorkers, but when the 77 riot hit they had enough. They packed up and moved to Atlanta and that was that. Even though my father took a bit of a pay cut, they were able to buy a house in an older Victorian era neighborhood...for $30,000. Needless to say, 34 years later the house is paid off for a long time and they are getting ready to retire with their only worry being where they are going to go on vacations while their siblings (who had good jobs too fwiw) that stayed in NYC still rent.

I once asked my mom if she had a chance to do it over again would she still move down here. After she looked at me like I was stupid, she said she if anything they would have moved sooner. Obviously there were things she missed about NYC (if you think the culture shock is bad now, imagine 30 years ago when Atlanta had 4 million less people and wasn't full of transplants and immigrants), but after a while those things seemed trivial. She said that here she never felt out of place even if my father wasn't black and me and my siblings were mixed (down here if you are black in any way you are black, but if you aren't black and you like black folks you can be black too ), she reveled in how she was able to afford to provide us with a decent education and not just be concerned with making ends meet, and how we were freer in a way to be ourselves here with no assumptions made about us.
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