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Old 07-06-2011, 07:07 PM
 
92 posts, read 200,781 times
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Whenever this conversation comes up I want to know this: Why didn't people buy when things were affordable, before gentrification? If they did they'd own the places and no one would be driving up their rents. In fact, they'd be able to rent out a floor and make money off of the evil "invaders."

It's their bad for not buying when they could. They wouldn't be complaining if they were on the selling side of all this madness. In fact, many who DID buy back when are the ones selling and laughing all the way to Atlanta with a boatload of cash. Are you going to tell them not to sell?
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,521 posts, read 12,695,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
Another thread, beating a dead horse.....Why is it that people who assume that those who are not all gung ho about gentrification would rather live in an era with extreme violence and drugs, as if there were no other options or balanced approach?
Another point is why do they assume blacks want to live in dumps? It's like the posters think all blacks are poor and low class. Only whites want to live in "nice" neighborhoods. They seem to think even middle class blaks want to "protect" those neighborhoods that are now dumps.

Blacks, like myself welcome gentri, it's not a bad thing. If the neigborhood is torn to hell than what's wrong with it being cleaned up and made better? Oh, the blacks are being "ran out"......I don't think so. They had ample opportunities to take care of the neighborhood, they didn't, therefore bring in people(of all races) that want to take care of it.

It's like anything esle, if you don't take care of it, you don't deserve it.

Will this hurt some, it sure will, life isn't fair.

I for one, want a neighborhood under development, when I move there in 2012.


Ron
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Bronx
13,048 posts, read 15,367,169 times
Reputation: 6660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
Another point is why do they assume blacks want to live in dumps? It's like the posters think all blacks are poor and low class. Only whites want to live in "nice" neighborhoods. They seem to think even middle class blaks want to "protect" those neighborhoods that are now dumps.

Blacks, like myself welcome gentri, it's not a bad thing. If the neigborhood is torn to hell than what's wrong with it being cleaned up and made better? Oh, the blacks are being "ran out"......I don't think so. They had ample opportunities to take care of the neighborhood, they didn't, therefore bring in people(of all races) that want to take care of it.

It's like anything esle, if you don't take care of it, you don't deserve it.

Will this hurt some, it sure will, life isn't fair.


Ron
I also came across many Black American transplants aswell, they are all educated, talented and goal oriented. THey all love NYC. They share a similar vision as the White waspy transplants from drinking starbucks to buying 2000 dollar macbook pro. T
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
965 posts, read 1,989,037 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
Another point is why do they assume blacks want to live in dumps?

Blacks, like myself welcome gentri, it's not that bad. If the neigborhood is torn to hell than what's wrong with it being cleaned up and made better? Oh, the blacks are being "ran out"......I don't think so. They had ample opportunities to take care of the neighborhood, they didn't, therefore bring in people(of all races) that want to take care of it.

It's like anything esle, if you don't take care of it, you don't deserve it.

Will this hurt some, it sure will but life isn't fair.


Ron
I think there is a difference between gentrification and revitilization. Many blacks and hispanics took care of their neighborhoods and formed organizations which inspired outsiders to come in. When speculators get thrown in the mix thats a whole different thing. And what is it when rents rise to the point that those who wish to keep their own businesses can no longer afford to keep them open in spite of a strong local clientel and decent traffic, thus leading the way for another starbucks or dunkin donuts? Were they lazy or stupid for wanting to be entreprenures, many fair well but a hike in rents force them out.

@ Sobroguy, with all do respect the Gordon Gecko mantra of "greed is good" is just not a sustainable model, concessions have to be made at some point. Especially when that greed is being subsidized. There is a huge difference between making some extra money and profit in a free market, than actually setting the stage for hypergentrification and gouging to take place.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:20 PM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,521 posts, read 12,695,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I also came across many Black American transplants aswell, they are all educated, talented and goal oriented. THey all love NYC. They share a similar vision as the White waspy transplants from drinking starbucks to buying 2000 dollar macbook pro. T
I always say ask any black middle class person and ask any white middle person what are some of their biggest concerns, they' ll say the same things.

Such as:

Safe neighborhoods
Good schools
Career opportunities
Long term Financial security
Leaving something behind for their children
Rising taxes

People of similar backgrounds and education are one in the same as far as what they want in life.

Blacks and whites are more a like than not. That applies to whatever class they fall into.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:23 PM
 
Location: In my view finder.....
8,521 posts, read 12,695,734 times
Reputation: 8079
Quote:
Originally Posted by twist07 View Post
I think there is a difference between gentrification and revitilization. Many blacks and hispanics took care of their neighborhoods and formed organizations which inspired outsiders to come in. When speculators get thrown in the mix thats a whole different thing. And what is it when rents rise to the point that those who wish to keep their own businesses can no longer afford to keep them open in spite of a strong local clientel and decent traffic, thus leading the way for another starbucks or dunkin donuts? Were they lazy or stupid for wanting to be entreprenures, many fair well but a hike in rents force them out.

@ Sobroguy, with all do respect the Gordon Gecko mantra of "greed is good" is just not a sustainable model, concessions have to be made at some point. Especially when that greed is being subsidized.
MOST of the time it's not neighborhoods that have been taken care of that get's gentrified. Most if not all of them were dumps.

Why would a area that is taken care of be "touched"? That doesn't make sense. A area like that has merchants, shops,etc...more than likely it's not a slum.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
965 posts, read 1,989,037 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron. View Post
MOST of the time it's not neighborhoods that have been taken care of that get's gentrified. Most if not all of them were dumps.

Why would a area that is taken care of be "touched"? That doesn't make sense. A area like that has merchants, shops,etc...more than likely it's not a slum.
Damn you respond quick, lol. Well what is progress to some people within a neighborhood may not be the type of progress the speculators may desire. Ex. Lefferts Gardens, many stores and shops there, and many of them cater to the West Indian populace in the area, those who are attracted to the area because of lower crime rates and good stock of housing demand more businesses and shops that cater to them. Nothing wrong with that, but speculators and landlords see this trend and speed up the process, building out of scale condos, pricing out the businesses that were already there and so forth. Some places may have been progressing, but to many speculators not progressing fast enough or not in the right direction, thusly changing the course to chart a path on what they deem to be "progress".

The artists and young people are often the first people to get "hip" to an improving low income area and move in because its cheap and safe. Cool, but its the vultures that preceed them that eventually end up pricing out everyone, pioneers included. (sorry for being repititious)
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Crown Heights
965 posts, read 1,989,037 times
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And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying change is bad and gentrification is completely wrong and I'd be a fool to say the city hasn't improved in some ways. What I'm saying is, that it is time for it to take a balanced approach before its too late. Its time to switch from the elite oriented growth and focus on other segments of society within the city, preferably the middle class.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:15 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,295 posts, read 4,231,267 times
Reputation: 1078
"new comers are educated and dont have a ghetto mindset."

that isn't necessarily true. there are lots of newcomers who are uneducated and they are here working very low-level, low wage jobs because that's all they can get. they also contribute negatively to a great deal of the quality of life issues plaguing some neighborhoods. drunkeness, brawls ... etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
Im some what against gentrification, the only thing that holds me back against gentrification is that like me these new comers are educated and dont have a ghetto mindset. However the demand for housing drives prices up and forces out many longtime residents. Also increases the competetion for jobs and drags down the wages aswell. But many longtime residents do have desires to move else where aswell. Half of my block in Mott Haven has either moved to Pennslyvania or Orlando or Tampa Bay Florida. WHen I visited NC a year ago residents complained about New Yorkers moving there driving up the cost of taxes and how some New Yorkers who lived in NC demanded higher wages and I was told NEw Yorkers are loud and obnoxious also New Yorkers and other notherners will destroy there southern way of living. Who wants to stay in the same area for the rest of there lives, I sure dont. I also plan to move someday too from NYC. What also contributes to gentrification and also the loss of NYC middleclass the economic climate that we are in right now. People are willing to move for jobs and also move for cheaper living. You have lots of Transplants who come to NYC for work and it competes with the local natives and drives up rents of locals due to the demand of housing. IN its wake workinhg class and middle class will end up leaving the city. Things change, people move, change is good for the heart, mind and soul. Last week I was in Guyana and I noticed how many East Indian Guyanese were leaving Guyana in droves because of crime and COL. I watched gentrification on a national level. Many Guyanese were leaving and have desire to leave and in there wake many Brazilians are moving in or haved moved in and helping to build a better place.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:16 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,295 posts, read 4,231,267 times
Reputation: 1078
Quote:
Originally Posted by stencil View Post
Whenever this conversation comes up I want to know this: Why didn't people buy when things were affordable, before gentrification? If they did they'd own the places and no one would be driving up their rents. In fact, they'd be able to rent out a floor and make money off of the evil "invaders."

It's their bad for not buying when they could. They wouldn't be complaining if they were on the selling side of all this madness. In fact, many who DID buy back when are the ones selling and laughing all the way to Atlanta with a boatload of cash. Are you going to tell them not to sell?
Consider this ... you buy a co-op or condo back in 2000. You are single and could afford it with no problem. But since then, the carrying charges have skyrocketed and you were a victim of the economic downturn. Your company laid you off in 2009 and since then, you had to take a lesser paying job.

This is the reality for a lot of people. Like I keep saying ... it's economic. Has nothing to do with "evil invaders."
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