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Old 07-19-2011, 08:30 AM
Location: West Harlem
6,886 posts, read 6,646,244 times
Reputation: 2961


Do not disagree, I was not objecting to making money. I was addressing the "emperor's new clothes" thing, which, along with liberal guilt, is very much impeding progress in Harlem. It is the reason that different crimes of harassment do not make the front page. It is not because they do not exist. They do and they are not at all rare.
As I said, we were astonished ourselves that there were so many other situations just like ours.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:38 AM
8,752 posts, read 14,116,989 times
Reputation: 4168
I don't doubt these things occur, but in reality it is rare, considering how many people live in this city, and the growing gulf between the haves and the have-nots. It really should be happening 10000x more...yet it does not.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:41 AM
Location: NYC
1,460 posts, read 1,514,794 times
Reputation: 2931
Originally Posted by Coolchris4000b View Post
So if a guy calls you cracker, honky, white boy. Your not gonna call him racial slurs back? I would with no thought. What did you expect him to sit there and say "YES SIR"? Please bro!
Move to another car before it escalates? As a Hispanic who grew up in the hood, that's what I would've done. They beat him up because he told them to "shut up". White, black, or latino, he would've got a beat down for that. If you get roudy with some reckless kids about 5 deep, chances are nowadays your gonna get stomped out. period. The way folks are these days, he's lucky that's all that happened. You're in a closed-in space with nowhere to go. Don't call people out when you have no escape route. I put up with loud mouth idiots for years on the bus and light-rail growing up. At the end of the day it's just a few minutes of your life. This is no different than the lady who got beat up for calling those 2 black girls animals for eating on the train.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:44 AM
8,752 posts, read 14,116,989 times
Reputation: 4168
Coolchris...in this situation, escalating the problem only puts you at risk. Why not move to another car/walk away? Those are life and death decisions, for all you know they have guns. The smart person walks away, the dead man "keeps it real" gets the "respect" of hood rats for "being real".

The only way I managed to survive and be relatively normal is by walking away, ignoring the idiots/dummies, and living above the 'hood mentality/rules. You should try it...you will be much happier.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:50 AM
Location: Brooklyn,NY
9,396 posts, read 10,449,651 times
Reputation: 13144
Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
What is "reverse" racism? Isn't it just regular old racism?
It's racism if what he says it's true. Straight up, no good racism. There is more violent acts in the news every day, more so as of late then I could recall then in the past. I find myself with my radar extra alert when walking outside these days, regardless of neighborhood and the skin color of the people around me.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:21 AM
Location: Bronx NY
343 posts, read 741,327 times
Reputation: 152
It's stupid but kids will be kids. I witnessed a similar incident at the 125th st 4 station. A group of black and spanish kids were bothering two white guys. The girls were calling them bit**** and even acting as though they were going to hit them. People were watching and laughing. I don't know if you could go so far as to call it racism though. By the way I'm Latino.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,201,250 times
Reputation: 1536
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I don't doubt these things occur, but in reality it is rare, considering how many people live in this city, and the growing gulf between the haves and the have-nots. It really should be happening 10000x more...yet it does not.
@ sobro it's comments like these that make you look like a real estate agent/broker to the ninth degree... you claim that we are a more civilized bunch of people nowadays than in the 70s, 80s and 90s and yet when someone who is close to the situation is telling you first hand that these experiences happen far more often than people are willing to admit you disregard it and basically say in your own way since we are animals this should be happening way more than it is and therefore it is rare...

you're using a contradiction to support gentrification when we already have seen what people call "reverse racism" pick up over the past couple of years a great deal because of it... And it isn't just one way, people like skidude are not the minority... many hipsters say that they want to live together in peace and get along and make friends with the locals and yet they are obsessed with posting on sites like wikipedia areas that have become predominantly white in ghetto areas... Reading Bushwick's wikipedia in 07-10 was hysterical... Sections called "Nightlife for whites"... "hipster invasion", and within the article they would include percentages of census tracts along wyckoff avenue or jefferson st. where "whites make their presence felt more"... It was just ridiculous and it showed you how most of these people weren't interested in blending in with the crowd but rather separating themselves and this is throughout the city with all different forms of ethnic culture which is why many people feel the way they feel about them... While I am not racist towards anyone, I won't lie to you and say that personally they are not my favorite group of people in the world either and it's the attitudes these people and the sense of entitlement they bring when they move into these hoods that causes resentment and creates this reverse racism which brings about situations like these... Both groups of people are in the wrong no doubt, but a middle ground has to be met and similar to the way things seemed to be late 90s, early 2000s where all groups in NYC seemed to get along the best (there were still problems, but not as many as there seems to be nowadays), we need to get back to what was working during those times by choosing to keep whatever negative opinions we have to ourselves and look at each individual crime for what it is and not as one group against another... This goes for black folk, white folk, hispanic, asian, hipster, transplant, etc.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:08 AM
8,752 posts, read 14,116,989 times
Reputation: 4168
I have a few comments to make:

1- What I am saying is that considering the magnitude of the people of color in poverty in this city, the fact that they are the least educated, highest unemployment rate, involved in the most street level crime, etc, I am surprised it doesn't happen alot more. Aren't you? We know what happens when you subjugate a population..eventually they snap...yet we have been asleep since the 70s and are now busy killing/subjugating eachother.

2-I don't really care whether hipsters want to blend into a community or not. Since when did any group coming to NYC do that? There would be no chinatowns, little Italy's, etc..we would all be speaking and culturally Dutch and German. Now that wouldn't be much of a NYC would it? Why are we holding them to that standard when nobody else is held to it?

Furthermore, they are doing the same things people of color have done for decades: Finding places/areas where they can be more comfortable. However, since the demographics have changed in NYC, it is whites now the minority group and posing those same questions/assertions..so what's the problem here? Your argument of "its the attitudes of these people and sense of entitlement they bring when they move into these hoods that causes resentment which brings about situations like these" rings a very loud bell for me...cuz that's one of the excuses people used in the 50s and 60s when those colored folks moved in.

If you think anyone owns a neighborhood, no matter how long they lived there..you are wrong. If you think people should adopt to the community, you are wrong again and there is little evidence anytime in NYC's history that it ever happened. If you believe someone should yield to "long-time" residents and their way of doing things, you would be wrong yet again..you own (or even worse, rent) that apt/house...as do I...exactly what makes you right/better/in control??? It's that sort of attitude which annoys and grates.

And this is coming from someone who is a long-time resident of a community in change..I don't own it anymore than the Jews before me owned it, or the Germans before them. And none of these groups did any sort of melding, anymore than was necessary that is.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:08 PM
479 posts, read 1,160,613 times
Reputation: 281
Originally Posted by yourboy718 View Post
It was all his mannerisms, style. way about him. It wasn't because he was White, it was because he wasn't ghetto. Made him stick out.

In fact it didn't matter who it was, those guys just wanted someone and they called him a "cracka" because he just happened to be White.
Hmmm.... Ok so lets say a young Black guy is walking in an upper class White neighborhood dress like his favorite 'Thug Rapper', and then he gets beat up by some white guys and called racist names and all that, and then you are suggesting that would not be a Hate Crime? Because is all about the way he was dress and he doesn't look like he belongs there?
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:38 PM
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,039 posts, read 5,201,250 times
Reputation: 1536
really sobroguy, aren't we past misinterpreting posts already...

You're gonna tell me that the way the chinese, japanese, italians, irish, hispanics and black folks came into neighborhoods is the same way these hipsters have moved in... they showed the same level of respect that other ethnic cultures did when they moved in...

you're gonna tell me that in the 50s, the reaction that white folks had towards black folk moving into their neighborhoods was the same exact situation that is happening now in these low-income minority areas with typically white hipsters moving in and immediately demanding changes to the neighborhood and getting attended to asap... Harlem now has guards on nearly all train stops and the Dekalb ave train stop which I live by in Bushwick had graffitti on the stop for nearly 3 decades and was untouched and only last year was it cleaned after the hipsters that moved into this location demanded it be cleaned up... doesn't matter that locals had been fighting to get graffitti off the walls for years (not me personally, i know i'll catch heat for this, but some of the work these graffitti artists used to do back in the day was amazing... the little chicken scratch they do now with their tags and crap is ugly and needs to go though IMO)...

Fact is, you cannot compare anything or any group to the way hipsters have come into this city... you can't compare reasons for why they moved here, can't compare the way they moved in, can't compare the level of respect they have as opposed to other groups, cannot compare anything... You yourself said people like skidude were trolls meanwhile he doesn't speak for a small group, he speaks for the masses... in their minds they deserve to take over every ethnic groups neighborhood whether it be irish italian, hispanic, black etc. because they are far more educated than us native New Yorkers and that is the biggest problem people have with them and that is why we see things like reverse racism take place now way more than recent previous years...

doesn't make it right as i've pointed out, but it does give you an understanding of why certain things happen and until they realize they are no better than anyone else just like other groups that came into this country did, they won't be met with such hostility... (This is not all of them, but a large number of them...)
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