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Old 07-19-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Hudson Valley of New York
263 posts, read 411,566 times
Reputation: 151
All these ideas would cost trillions upon trillions of dollars. Where do you expect the money to come from? The MTA, the state and country is BROKE if you haven't notice.

When I read posts about banning cars, tearing down highways it's hard to take someone serious. It's seems more about people just hating cars than anything else. We need to find a balance and by that improving both our roads/highways and public transportation not to "ban" something.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:41 AM
 
8,752 posts, read 8,628,093 times
Reputation: 4168
Yeah those would not be serious at all and make no sense, kinda like when we built the entire highway system across the country, or the GWB, or Brooklyn Bridge, or Verrazon, or the train system, or the massive housing across the city, and on and on.

We should ban people who say "we can't" or "can't take us seriously" because we can envision something different and more profound.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:45 AM
 
551 posts, read 522,461 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Start ticketing bikers, and pedestrians too- and we'll start to see everyone sharing the road a little bit better causing less driving frustrations, and walking/biking frustrations for everyone.

When's the last time you've seen a jaywalking ticket issued in this city?
or the last time you've gone a day without hearing about a biker getting killed- shortly after seeing one blow through red lights like they only apply to cars.
I don't think it is a good idea for there to be ticketing jaywalkers in NYC. There are already too many fines in this city for doing anything, like if you sit on two subway seats on an empty subway a subway cop comes and tickets you immediately. He doesn't even give you a chance to take away your stuff from the other seat, which I think 99% of New Yorkers would do if the train is getting full and people need a seat. Under the horrible Bloomberg, he put us into this police state. Guiliani started it to an extent but Bloomberg made it much worse.

So no ticketing of bikers/pedestrians, it is a very fascist way of trying to make NYC greener or more livable. It will quickly get out of hand and very soon you'll live in a police state all in the name of "safety" and "greening NYC". You're already seeing it because the NYPD has police summons, arrest, and ticket quotas that they do despite Governor Cuomo's "ban" on such a practice that is not followed.

What you could also do for greenness is allow people to put green roofs on top of buildings. Green roofs on top of buildings allow there to be less of an urban heat island effect and they will also absorb more water so the storm drainage systems don't have to overflow. Not only that, but allow any residential lot in front or behind someone's house to turn their entire lawn into food production with organic non-GMO foods. We need Victory Gardens, like in the days of WWII, and it can help feed the homeless for free and take away power from chain-store supermarkets or local businesses can use those produce to make inexpensive but wholesome organic products. Having green and organic non-GMO food grow everywhere will make NYC more green and livable because people will like having more plants in NYC and it will make it more pleasant to live in, but also help feed poor/homeless people possibly and allow the citizen to control their food supply, possibly leading to less money spent on food for many of NYC's working/middle class since they can grow it themselves.

The way of the future is an organic non-GMO food revolution that isn't controlled by big corporations aligned with supermarkets.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:46 AM
 
86 posts, read 120,172 times
Reputation: 117
You can't run any subway connection onto the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, because of how steep the ramps are, and how light the bridge is. You can build light rail onto the Verrazano Narrows Bridge however. Also there isn't need for a 7 train extension to NJ since Amtrak has already proposed the Gateway Project.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
1,275 posts, read 1,405,502 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
plenty of subway workers get to work via automobile, and all maintenance trucks need automobiles.

the subway itself relies heavily on auto subsidies-
gas taxes, $1 cab surcharges, TBTA tolls (more than 4 dollars of each toll goes towards NYCT and MTA Rail), registration and car rental taxes, etc.

buses, are autmobiles.
Yes, buses are automobiles. I suggested a ban on privately owned automobiles. Since buses are part of the public transit system they are excluded. Cabs are a bit of a grey area, but I feel that they should be excluded from a ban as well. The majority of traffic congestion is from people who are emotionally attached to their cars and who would rather sit in a traffic jam every morning than take a train.

I'm sure we could re-allocate the excess money we spend on traffic conditions, road maintenance, etc on public transport.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
trains, have sometimes awkward patterns of operation. LIRR has 90 minute gaps between trains, MetroNorth does not run late at night, and NYCT subway trains on weekends esp. in the evening can be incredibly awful.
As I stated previously, in order for a auto ban to be effective I agree we would need to improve train schedules first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
If you live in upper Manhattan, and work in greenpoint, you might find yourself with a 10 minute drive, of 55 minutes in public transit.

This city makes it incredibly difficult on auto drivers, which isn't always particularly fair, especially when you consider the region just outside NYC and how difficult life can be for people from Jersey and Long Island who work or go to school in either NYC, or the outlying areas.
I don't buy this. A friend of mine who had a car offered to drive me to work one day. Normally, it took me about 30 minutes by train to get to the office and I thought what a luxury it would be to ride in a car. Ha! After an hour sitting in traffic I had to exit the car and run into the subway station anyway. There were accidents, road construction and detours. I admit the subway system can be a mess at times, but its nothing compared to driving in the city.

I'm afraid one has to take into account the commute when accepting a job, or choosing where to attend classes. I would not accept a job in Pennsylvania while living in Manhattan and then complain about how long it takes to get there.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:53 AM
 
81 posts, read 75,325 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Because it is SO cost prohibitive, and time consuming to own an auto.

I'd be willing to wager though the higher levels of income and education, the more likely one is to own an auto registered in this city.
I strongly disagree with this statement.

It makes no sense to own a car here.

In fact the trend is, those moving into the city. Those affluent, educated "yuppies" are opting for public transit over driving. It's one of the reasons why they choose to live here. The desire to drive is down among millennials significantly versus any other generation.

The thing is this. Would you rather sit in traffic and then have to spend another 10 to 15 minutes on a good day looking for parking. Or would you rather sit on a train turn up your head phones, or even better the person sitting next to you and start a conversation? An opportunity to meet a friend, or more, or someone just interesting. A chance to read a book, maybe enjoy the scenery on the El, play a game on your digital device.

What about when you go out at night, you can take the train back instead of getting a DUI or worse, and avoid the arrival traffic and lack of parking.

Imagine all the money you save not needing a car.

We need to make New York City for NEW YORKERS. If those in the burbs don't like it, tough luck. We get screwed enough for subsidizing their highways and breathing their pollution. It is not balanced, it tips in favor of the automobile as is. My advice, build better commuter rail connections. Base your suburbs around transit hubs. It's not our fault you choose to live the way you do.

If you want freeway access to your city move to Atlanta or Kansas City.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Hudson Valley of New York
263 posts, read 411,566 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Yeah those would not be serious at all and make no sense, kinda like when we built the entire highway system across the country, or the GWB, or Brooklyn Bridge, or Verrazon, or the train system, or the massive housing across the city, and on and on.

We should ban people who say "we can't" or "can't take us seriously" because we can envision something different and more profound.
Are you kidding? You cannot be comparing our interstate system vs banning cars. All of our bridges, commuter rail system, subways give people choices and made it easier to move around from one place to another.

Banning cars and shutting down highways for some fantasy green park does not cut it. If you urban people want more green then move to the Catskills.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:57 AM
 
551 posts, read 522,461 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
it is simple build up staten island it is much less dense than the rest of the city (about 8,000 ppsm).
and add more bridges from staten island toward the city.
That is a very good suggestion. I once made a separate thread that was sorta like that, called something along the lines of "Will Staten Island become the next Manhattan?" or something like that.

I definitely think Staten Island can be built up to become much more urban and green and livable if it were transformed into another Manhattan complete with very high density and mixed use zoning that promotes walking and subway/transit use, but on that thread I said earlier many said there would be a ton of resistance to that so having that happen is like having a camel go through the eye of a needle. In other words, it isn't going to happen. Staten Island is among the only places in NYC that offer suburban housing and people who have them tend to be very resistant to any density increase, transit increase, or mixed use planning of any sort. If Staten Island became more dense I would think NYC could add another 500,000 to 1,000,000 people.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:01 AM
 
8,752 posts, read 8,628,093 times
Reputation: 4168
Orange Hudson...and now all of those cars are making it HARDER to move from one place to another due to gridlock, cost of gas, etc. The answer, especially in urban districts in NYC, is to remove the cars and expand public transportation, because in those districts cars are the problem. You don't get it...which is why you are in the Catskills.
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Hudson Valley of New York
263 posts, read 411,566 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourboy718 View Post
I strongly disagree with this statement.

It makes no sense to own a car here.

In fact the trend is, those moving into the city. Those affluent, educated "yuppies" are opting for public transit over driving. It's one of the reasons why they choose to live here. The desire to drive is down among millennials significantly versus any other generation.

The thing is this. Would you rather sit in traffic and then have to spend another 10 to 15 minutes on a good day looking for parking. Or would you rather sit on a train turn up your head phones, or even better the person sitting next to you and start a conversation? An opportunity to meet a friend, or more, or someone just interesting. A chance to read a book, maybe enjoy the scenery on the El, play a game on your digital device.

What about when you go out at night, you can take the train back instead of getting a DUI or worse, and avoid the arrival traffic and lack of parking.

Imagine all the money you save not needing a car.

We need to make New York City for NEW YORKERS. If those in the burbs don't like it, tough luck. We get screwed enough for subsidizing their highways and breathing their pollution. It is not balanced, it tips in favor of the automobile as is. My advice, build better commuter rail connections. Base your suburbs around transit hubs. It's not our fault you choose to live the way you do.

If you want freeway access to your city move to Atlanta or Kansas City.



Ignorant at its finest. I suggest then Long Island, the Hudson Valley, and New Jersey should ban everyone from the city too. Don't come to our beaches, apple picking, hiking, wineries etc. Just go be a hermit and being in one area your whole life.


I lived Queens for 15 years, my parents lived in the city almost their whole life, other parts of my family lived in Brooklyn and we all own cars. If you step away from Manhattan and hipster Brooklyn and look around you. Go tell Staten Island, Bayside (Queens), Fresh Meadows (Queens), Riverdale (Bronx) a car is not needed.
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