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Old 08-23-2011, 03:19 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,421,888 times
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I just read in the news that more delays are expected before the completion of the renewed World Trade Center. As everyone knows, we are 10 years after 9/11 and the project was already delayed several times. Can anyone clarify the following points?
1) Why is Port Authority in charge of building this huge project? I am aware they own (or have rights to) the land, but still, why force this troubled agency into such project? Why not compensate them and let someone better qualified to take on this challenge?
2) The same about Larry Silverstein: he has rights to build, but on the other hand, he lacks the necessary funding. Why insist on something he himself deems difficult and/or unprofitable?
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:23 PM
 
1,812 posts, read 3,343,781 times
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One word.....Corruption!
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,776,448 times
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Sorry, a bit lengthy, but covers all the broad strokes:

1) It's their land and was their building. Is the project supposed to be for the benefit of some other interest? Whose?

Who is going to effectively buy them out? How much?? Where will the money come from???

2) Silverstein has more money than the Devil. He has a 99 year leasehold. He's got a billion dollar insurance settlement, he's got buildings and properties, all first rate, all over the city, as well as a management company. Silverstein Properties, his plaque is on a third or more of the office buildings in Manhattan.

You need to think in terms of business, money and greed; as well as power and influence. Silverstein is the real deal, he ain't no Donald Trump.

About 3 years were lost, as Silverstein wrangled and stood firm with his demands. There was an issue with regard to the insurance policy. The policy was for a Billion dollars. So the towers collasped, consequently one billion is owed to Mr. Silverstein, right? No! Silverstein claimed the policy covered each building--individually, consequently he is owed TWO billion, one billion for each tower.

This was a huge issue and of course had to be resolved in court. Of course, this had to do with ONLY the 'towers', buildings 1 and 2. Building 4 (or whatever the number was), which also collasped, Silverstein owned outright, and there were no insurance issues, so Silverstein was able to virtually immediately rebuild that building. Unfortunately, as a result of the overall circumstances, he had a heck of a time leasing out the building.

In addition, to the disputed insurance payoff amount, there was dispute as to who was entitled to the 'payoff', Silverstein or The Port Authority. There were/are other issues as well, for example, who had ultimate say as to what is to be built and how?

The Port Authority believes it is their property and consequently, they decide and control the property. Silverstein says wait one minute and starts waiving his leasehold, which gives him a great deal of rights, and he claims full control. Again, the courts.

Also, there is the POLITICS! The Port Authority is a political entity, contolled by the governors of NY and NJ. The actual WTC is in the city of NY, which brings in Mayor Bloomberg, whose interest is in rebuilding a damaged part of his city and sppecifically restarting the economic engine of the WTC, and revitalizing downtown; but who ultimately has no power in the matter, and is eventually axed out of all decision making.

All of the Players try to come together, but their interests are too divergent. Specifically given that Silverstein is a business man, cunning and ruthless. Oh, and to the fact that, the insurance settlement will likely bankrupt the insurer. (Now, I forget, I don't recall, but it may be that The Port Authority may have self-insured. I c/b totally off base. Memory fails.)

In any event, with all these competing interest jockeying for position, The Port Authority, for general political purposes (think Govenors' interest), hold a design contest for the future WTC development. There is a winner and the design is announced to the public----pure political BS!!

Only one problem, the person (among other interests) who controls everything, Silverstein, wasn't on board with the design, and NONE of the issues have been resolved.

Also, of course, there are the Victims, First Responders, their family members, and the 'memorial', its design and placement. The issue with the memorial is rather simple, who's paying for it, how big will it be, and who is going to sacrafice the land necessary for placement?

Now, one of the very first stalements, besides the insurance settlement was the design. The winning design is a vanity project for the architect and a political monument to the event of 9/11. It was thus, as a result of all the politics. Silverstein never had any input and no intention of building it, let alone paying for it.

Silverstein is a cold straight business man. From his viewpoint, the design was financially impractica. So an additional battle ensued. The Port and the Govenors vs Silverstein, Politics vs Business. Practical vs Impractical.

Now, not only must these intetests come to agreement on what to build, where to build, and how to split the responsibility, nothing much will be happening until the insurance issue is resolved and Silverstein gets his money. The problems is that Silverstein has no intention of backing off his claim for 2 Billion, and everyone under-estimates his resolve on the issue, as well as his leasehold rights, and his resolve to NOT build the impractical winning design.

Also, under-estimated was the impractical, from a business point of view, demands and resolve of the victim and first responder family members. The battle over the design and placement of the memorial held up the design of the project site for quite a bit of time.

So, I hope you see, the delays have nothing to do with Silverstein not having the money. It has all to do with competing interests, and the failure to come to quick resolution. The fact of the matter is that Silverstein held all the cards. He quietly and in the background went about his buisness, while the politicians, the agency, the family members, and the star architect went about there's---wasting time and to little avail.

The basic upshot of it all? Silverstein got the money, the family members got the location they wanted, Silverstein and The Port split the project property and responsibility.

The Problem? Silverstein has his money to rebuild, but The Port Authority doesn't, since they got none of the insurance. Silverstein went with pracitical designs, The Port Authority did not.

So here we are...
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:00 PM
 
6,205 posts, read 7,421,888 times
Reputation: 3563
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Sorry, a bit lengthy, but covers all the broad strokes:

1) It's their land and was their building. Is the project supposed to be for the benefit of some other interest? Whose?
Le me think... What about the City of New York?
But who is Port Authority? Are they supposed to have "interests"?
What about eminent domain? They could be compensated. It was done in a 1001 cases before, so its nothing new.
Quote:
You need to think in terms of business, money and greed; as well as power and influence. Silverstein is the real deal, he ain't no Donald Trump.
Sorry, that is no personal issue: if he is nice or not, greedy or not, is totally irrelevant. The city had to take control and ask for bids for reconstruction from international investors. That would had allowed several alternatives.
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Old 08-23-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
6,453 posts, read 6,978,184 times
Reputation: 4658
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Sorry, a bit lengthy, but covers all the broad strokes:

1) It's their land and was their building. Is the project supposed to be for the benefit of some other interest? Whose?

Who is going to effectively buy them out? How much?? Where will the money come from???

2) Silverstein has more money than the Devil. He has a 99 year leasehold. He's got a billion dollar insurance settlement, he's got buildings and properties, all first rate, all over the city, as well as a management company. Silverstein Properties, his plaque is on a third or more of the office buildings in Manhattan.

You need to think in terms of business, money and greed; as well as power and influence. Silverstein is the real deal, he ain't no Donald Trump.

About 3 years were lost, as Silverstein wrangled and stood firm with his demands. There was an issue with regard to the insurance policy. The policy was for a Billion dollars. So the towers collasped, consequently one billion is owed to Mr. Silverstein, right? No! Silverstein claimed the policy covered each building--individually, consequently he is owed TWO billion, one billion for each tower.

This was a huge issue and of course had to be resolved in court. Of course, this had to do with ONLY the 'towers', buildings 1 and 2. Building 4 (or whatever the number was), which also collasped, Silverstein owned outright, and there were no insurance issues, so Silverstein was able to virtually immediately rebuild that building. Unfortunately, as a result of the overall circumstances, he had a heck of a time leasing out the building.

In addition, to the disputed insurance payoff amount, there was dispute as to who was entitled to the 'payoff', Silverstein or The Port Authority. There were/are other issues as well, for example, who had ultimate say as to what is to be built and how?

The Port Authority believes it is their property and consequently, they decide and control the property. Silverstein says wait one minute and starts waiving his leasehold, which gives him a great deal of rights, and he claims full control. Again, the courts.

Also, there is the POLITICS! The Port Authority is a political entity, contolled by the governors of NY and NJ. The actual WTC is in the city of NY, which brings in Mayor Bloomberg, whose interest is in rebuilding a damaged part of his city and sppecifically restarting the economic engine of the WTC, and revitalizing downtown; but who ultimately has no power in the matter, and is eventually axed out of all decision making.

All of the Players try to come together, but their interests are too divergent. Specifically given that Silverstein is a business man, cunning and ruthless. Oh, and to the fact that, the insurance settlement will likely bankrupt the insurer. (Now, I forget, I don't recall, but it may be that The Port Authority may have self-insured. I c/b totally off base. Memory fails.)

In any event, with all these competing interest jockeying for position, The Port Authority, for general political purposes (think Govenors' interest), hold a design contest for the future WTC development. There is a winner and the design is announced to the public----pure political BS!!

Only one problem, the person (among other interests) who controls everything, Silverstein, wasn't on board with the design, and NONE of the issues have been resolved.

Also, of course, there are the Victims, First Responders, their family members, and the 'memorial', its design and placement. The issue with the memorial is rather simple, who's paying for it, how big will it be, and who is going to sacrafice the land necessary for placement?

Now, one of the very first stalements, besides the insurance settlement was the design. The winning design is a vanity project for the architect and a political monument to the event of 9/11. It was thus, as a result of all the politics. Silverstein never had any input and no intention of building it, let alone paying for it.

Silverstein is a cold straight business man. From his viewpoint, the design was financially impractica. So an additional battle ensued. The Port and the Govenors vs Silverstein, Politics vs Business. Practical vs Impractical.

Now, not only must these intetests come to agreement on what to build, where to build, and how to split the responsibility, nothing much will be happening until the insurance issue is resolved and Silverstein gets his money. The problems is that Silverstein has no intention of backing off his claim for 2 Billion, and everyone under-estimates his resolve on the issue, as well as his leasehold rights, and his resolve to NOT build the impractical winning design.

Also, under-estimated was the impractical, from a business point of view, demands and resolve of the victim and first responder family members. The battle over the design and placement of the memorial held up the design of the project site for quite a bit of time.

So, I hope you see, the delays have nothing to do with Silverstein not having the money. It has all to do with competing interests, and the failure to come to quick resolution. The fact of the matter is that Silverstein held all the cards. He quietly and in the background went about his buisness, while the politicians, the agency, the family members, and the star architect went about there's---wasting time and to little avail.

The basic upshot of it all? Silverstein got the money, the family members got the location they wanted, Silverstein and The Port split the project property and responsibility.

The Problem? Silverstein has his money to rebuild, but The Port Authority doesn't, since they got none of the insurance. Silverstein went with pracitical designs, The Port Authority did not.

So here we are...
Good post!
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,341 posts, read 36,840,879 times
Reputation: 12730
The whole thing is completely tedious with plan after plan, after plan, after plan.

When it comes, it comes...and we'll live with the mess.

Forget the genius of architects like Calatrava and Ghery....we'll get some BIG buildings that house a lot of people in good times and remain half empty in bad times unless filled with City, State and PA agencies. JUST LIKE BEFORE.

When the whole "bathtub" was dug out it should have been filled with water to be the world's largest municipal swimming pool. To Hell with highrise office towers filled with faceless corporations of which the city has enough, or worse, municipal authorities renting just to make the numbers look good for the current mayor and the PA chief.

The whole WTC rebuilding has been nothing but an endless stream of tedious mediocrity.
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: The United States of Amnesia
1,355 posts, read 1,911,719 times
Reputation: 686
What's going to be funny is when they don't find anyone to move in to those towers.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,776,448 times
Reputation: 2074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
The whole thing is completely tedious with plan after plan, after plan, after plan.

When it comes, it comes...and we'll live with the mess.

Forget the genius of architects like Calatrava and Ghery....we'll get some BIG buildings that house a lot of people in good times and remain half empty in bad times unless filled with City, State and PA agencies. JUST LIKE BEFORE.

When the whole "bathtub" was dug out it should have been filled with water to be the world's largest municipal swimming pool. To Hell with highrise office towers filled with faceless corporations of which the city has enough, or worse, municipal authorities renting just to make the numbers look good for the current mayor and the PA chief.

The whole WTC rebuilding has been nothing but an endless stream of tedious mediocrity.
Really intelligent evaluation of the facts.

The above is why I call you out, so often. Your posts lack knowledge and thought. Just mindless comments.

Jcoltrane heads for the Bunker and takes cover, INCOMING!!!

Let me save you the trouble, I'm an arrogant a-hole, I know, I know....
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,995 posts, read 83,827,560 times
Reputation: 114205
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Sorry, a bit lengthy, but covers all the broad strokes:

1) It's their land and was their building. Is the project supposed to be for the benefit of some other interest? Whose?

Who is going to effectively buy them out? How much?? Where will the money come from???

2) Silverstein has more money than the Devil. He has a 99 year leasehold. He's got a billion dollar insurance settlement, he's got buildings and properties, all first rate, all over the city, as well as a management company. Silverstein Properties, his plaque is on a third or more of the office buildings in Manhattan.

You need to think in terms of business, money and greed; as well as power and influence. Silverstein is the real deal, he ain't no Donald Trump.

About 3 years were lost, as Silverstein wrangled and stood firm with his demands. There was an issue with regard to the insurance policy. The policy was for a Billion dollars. So the towers collasped, consequently one billion is owed to Mr. Silverstein, right? No! Silverstein claimed the policy covered each building--individually, consequently he is owed TWO billion, one billion for each tower.

This was a huge issue and of course had to be resolved in court. Of course, this had to do with ONLY the 'towers', buildings 1 and 2. Building 4 (or whatever the number was), which also collasped, Silverstein owned outright, and there were no insurance issues, so Silverstein was able to virtually immediately rebuild that building. Unfortunately, as a result of the overall circumstances, he had a heck of a time leasing out the building.

In addition, to the disputed insurance payoff amount, there was dispute as to who was entitled to the 'payoff', Silverstein or The Port Authority. There were/are other issues as well, for example, who had ultimate say as to what is to be built and how?

The Port Authority believes it is their property and consequently, they decide and control the property. Silverstein says wait one minute and starts waiving his leasehold, which gives him a great deal of rights, and he claims full control. Again, the courts.

Also, there is the POLITICS! The Port Authority is a political entity, contolled by the governors of NY and NJ. The actual WTC is in the city of NY, which brings in Mayor Bloomberg, whose interest is in rebuilding a damaged part of his city and sppecifically restarting the economic engine of the WTC, and revitalizing downtown; but who ultimately has no power in the matter, and is eventually axed out of all decision making.

All of the Players try to come together, but their interests are too divergent. Specifically given that Silverstein is a business man, cunning and ruthless. Oh, and to the fact that, the insurance settlement will likely bankrupt the insurer. (Now, I forget, I don't recall, but it may be that The Port Authority may have self-insured. I c/b totally off base. Memory fails.)

In any event, with all these competing interest jockeying for position, The Port Authority, for general political purposes (think Govenors' interest), hold a design contest for the future WTC development. There is a winner and the design is announced to the public----pure political BS!!

Only one problem, the person (among other interests) who controls everything, Silverstein, wasn't on board with the design, and NONE of the issues have been resolved.

Also, of course, there are the Victims, First Responders, their family members, and the 'memorial', its design and placement. The issue with the memorial is rather simple, who's paying for it, how big will it be, and who is going to sacrafice the land necessary for placement?

Now, one of the very first stalements, besides the insurance settlement was the design. The winning design is a vanity project for the architect and a political monument to the event of 9/11. It was thus, as a result of all the politics. Silverstein never had any input and no intention of building it, let alone paying for it.

Silverstein is a cold straight business man. From his viewpoint, the design was financially impractica. So an additional battle ensued. The Port and the Govenors vs Silverstein, Politics vs Business. Practical vs Impractical.

Now, not only must these intetests come to agreement on what to build, where to build, and how to split the responsibility, nothing much will be happening until the insurance issue is resolved and Silverstein gets his money. The problems is that Silverstein has no intention of backing off his claim for 2 Billion, and everyone under-estimates his resolve on the issue, as well as his leasehold rights, and his resolve to NOT build the impractical winning design.

Also, under-estimated was the impractical, from a business point of view, demands and resolve of the victim and first responder family members. The battle over the design and placement of the memorial held up the design of the project site for quite a bit of time.

So, I hope you see, the delays have nothing to do with Silverstein not having the money. It has all to do with competing interests, and the failure to come to quick resolution. The fact of the matter is that Silverstein held all the cards. He quietly and in the background went about his buisness, while the politicians, the agency, the family members, and the star architect went about there's---wasting time and to little avail.

The basic upshot of it all? Silverstein got the money, the family members got the location they wanted, Silverstein and The Port split the project property and responsibility.

The Problem? Silverstein has his money to rebuild, but The Port Authority doesn't, since they got none of the insurance. Silverstein went with pracitical designs, The Port Authority did not.

So here we are...
This is a pretty good assessment. Just want to add--under the 2005 Master Agreement, Silverstein had to give a portion of his insurance money up to the PA, who took over the rebuilding of One WTC under its wholly owned subsidiary, One WTC LLC. Four is being built by Silverstein, and so are Two and Three (only foundation work so far), the subject of the long arbitration between Silverstein and the PA and now subject to the amended Master Agreement. PA is building the PATH hub, the vehicular security center beneath the site, and the north projection connecting the WTC to the WFC under 9A. The National 911 Memorial is its own animal, but the PA has lent them engineering services worth about 150 million that the Memorial org doesn't want to pay back (this bit of bickering covered in the news recently).
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,995 posts, read 83,827,560 times
Reputation: 114205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
The whole thing is completely tedious with plan after plan, after plan, after plan.

When it comes, it comes...and we'll live with the mess.

Forget the genius of architects like Calatrava and Ghery....we'll get some BIG buildings that house a lot of people in good times and remain half empty in bad times unless filled with City, State and PA agencies. JUST LIKE BEFORE.

When the whole "bathtub" was dug out it should have been filled with water to be the world's largest municipal swimming pool. To Hell with highrise office towers filled with faceless corporations of which the city has enough, or worse, municipal authorities renting just to make the numbers look good for the current mayor and the PA chief.

The whole WTC rebuilding has been nothing but an endless stream of tedious mediocrity.
I wouldn't call Conde Nast faceless. They have lots of faces on all their magazines. Oh, I kill me.
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