Toll the East River Bridges? Yay or nay? (Union, Inwood: insurance, home)

[andrewesque]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

How many dollars of a subway fare are going to pay for bridges and roads? None.

Everyone's general tax dollars go towards public transit, and public roads.
Public roads are ALWAYS a cheaper investment for the gov't per mile traveled.

Car drivers taxes go towards public transit. ( Car registration, rental cars, taxi surcharges, purchasing cars )

Public transit in the city is largely untaxed to riders. They give nothing back.

Even if that's true, it still doesn't negate my point about the funding of roads. For what it's worth, I don't think we should pass on the full cost of either roads or transit to the users: transportation is an essential part of the nation's economy, and it's not like we should de-subsidize schools, hospitals, police, firefighting, trash, etc. simply because they do not support themselves.

[GooseNeck]

Yes to tolls I 'll pay them.

Bike riders benefit from the same roads so I say make them pay a license and registration fees and tolls like cars do.

In fact when I 'm at the Mayors office next week I'm going to suggest it as a way to raise revenue for the new bike lanes and needed infrastructure repairs

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

When the rich are forced into the subways, watch how quickly they get clean and safe.

Rich people use the subway all the time. Chambers Street Station in the heart of the financial district still smells like ****.

[checkmatechamp13]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

Toll EVERYTHING.
Make riding around in a private car or cab as expensive as possible. That $100 a carton price for cigarettes has cut down smoking...maybe huge tolls on all bridges will do the same for city driving.

When the rich are forced into the subways, watch how quickly they get clean and safe.

I doubt a high toll is really going to force the rich to take subways. If they're rich, they could care less what the toll is.

And there are a lot of upper-class people who take the subway. You'll see a whole bunch of people in suits and ties getting on at Wall Street (on either the (2)(3) or (4)(5)).

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Charge the transit riders what it costs to ride UNSUBSIDIZED. Then toll the river crossing at the rate it would cost without giving subsidies.

I'd gladly pay .50 cents to go over the east river, if it meant I'd pay $1 to get over the verazzano, and .50 cents to go thru Midtown tunnel.
Siuck you'd be paying $4-5 per subway and bus, but hell, at least it would be fair.

A person driving into Manhattan is using up more resources than a person taking transit. Cities, by definition have limited space, so a person in a car is using more of that limited resource and should be charged accordingly.

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Unfortunately I see tolls on all bridges/tunnels/crossings in our future. If it brings in more revenue, and decreases car dependance/use, then I am reluctantly for it, so long as it goes exclusively to improving mass transit that is, and not just to pad pensions.

The thing is that I don't find a car necessary to access Manhattan in the first place. Passing through, yes, but not to travel from the outer boroughs to Manhattan.

That's what I liked about congestion pricing: People passing through Manhattan wouldn't pay anything extra (and they are the ones who most likely need their cars). Going from Bontoon, NJ to Manhattan is easy, but going from Bontoon, NJ to Riverhead, Suffolk is a lot harder by transit.

Originally Posted by WithDisp

How many dollars of a subway fare are going to pay for bridges and roads? None.

Everyone's general tax dollars go towards public transit, and public roads.
Public roads are ALWAYS a cheaper investment for the gov't per mile traveled.

Car drivers taxes go towards public transit. ( Car registration, rental cars, taxi surcharges, purchasing cars )

Public transit in the city is largely untaxed to riders. They give nothing back.

But roads cause more harm to society as a whole, with the pollution and the risk of accidents being increased.

And your statement about roads being cheaper is only true because roads compete for passengers with transit. If every single driver on the road switched to mass transit, transit would actually be profitable (there are a lot of Manhattan-centric bus and train routes that actually do turn a profit)

Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros

I was just in NYC for a week for the first time and the took the Subway for each trip. In all of my travels, I probably used each line about 10 times. The 7 I used probably upwards of 100 times. I also used busses.

I thought they were exceptionally clean and safe. I used them at all hours too - 3-5:30 am coming back at night was quite typical being that I live on the West Coast and hadn't adjusted to EST time yet. LOL

When people talk about them being unsafe and trashed, I just have to wonder where these trains are located? I saw nothing of the sort and was undoubtedly impressed.

I don't take the subway too often (as I live in Staten Island, so I use buses more), but overall, I don't find the trains to be particularly dirty. I just learn to ignore little things that seem to bother a lot of passengers (for example, some people complain about the lack of A/C, but I actually like the heat. Some people complain about cleanliness, but I just avoid anything that is obviously dirty.)

[yourboy718]

+Most New Yorkers don't drive
+Even more New Yorkers do not drive into Manhattan.
+The city needs revenue to make improvements and maintain our highly used transit system.

=Toll all East/Harlem River crossings.

[SobroGuy]

You will find those most against to the tolls are all the LI and Westchester county residents who treat the city like their toilet and expect us to accomodate their lifestyle. They want to drive into the city, they don't want to associate with city folk on public transportation (the horror!), and they see the city as something to be used/abused/raped for everything they can.

Toll the bridges, but make sure it simply doesn't go to padding these Westchester and LI residents' pensions and benefits...it should go to improving and expanding service.

[WithDisp]

It's frightening how livid some people are on the fact that only 80% of bridge tolls go towards public transit subsidies, while 0% of public transit fares goes towards subsidies for those who drive.

Environmentalists and the poor really just want everyone else to pay for their own ideals.

Here's a crazy idea, if NYC needs more money for public transit infrastructure, CHARGE MORE for your dang services. Stop stealing it from the rest of the region. 'Somebody has to pay for it' socialism has gone on long enough.

[Kefir King]

Public transit in the city is largely untaxed to riders. They give nothing back.

Uhh, so tell us how you get throught the turnstile for free?

Would drivers squeal if they had to pay $2.25 every time they enter their cars? Plus $2 for each passenger? Why not, shouldn't they pay the entrance fee just like on subways and buses.
I guess only someone who has NEVER ridden public transportation would think it's FREE to travellers. They have turnstiles and collection machines, you see.

If the rich so readily ride the subway, then why not just charge $1000 per cab ride, with $950 going into the General Tax fund, ride and see who squeals the loudest. Yes, Mrs. Whitney will still use her "car" to get to her bridge game, but her accountant will use the subway after he figures out how it works.

Somebody wants to tax bicyles, fine. Make it on a per pound basis to equate it with the amount assessed per automotive unit. Perhaps $1 per pound per year: $35 per bike and $3500 per car, sounds about right.
But then make sure bikes get their own lanes, highways, and bridges and parking spaces all over town.


Cars are a blight on NYC. Anyone who doesn't realize that is like the sultans of yore who thought it their right to be carried around by 6 bearers. Eventually cars will be a thing of the past in the city except for the mega-mega rich and powerful. Only the process from here to there is up for grabs.
So huge tolls on all bridges that help fill the City's coffers is a societal good.
If someone wants to cross a bridge in a Cadillac Escalade for $1,000 toll the City says THANK YOU, COME AGAIN!

[WithDisp]

At 2.25 most subway and bus lines are operating at a loss. You're getting in for better than free.

Kefir King just sees cars as a way to further make people who can, or have to afford them, pay more into his own interests. Sounds very fiscally socialist. You wont see me picking up his tab.

[mathjak107]

im surprised no one has challenged our tolls in nyc as an unfair tax.

the tolls dont support the bridges or roads. they go into the general tax fund.

you are taxing people unfairly. why is it free to go from queens to montauk point on the LIE but from the bronx to queens you have to pay a toll to put more tax money into the general tax fund .

think about it!