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Old 08-10-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,873 posts, read 2,663,991 times
Reputation: 1664

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
My thing is this when you have high unemployment and poverty, social injusticw lack of neccesity for services people will revolt. If the government keeps giving free handouts and those poor people use govt handouts to buy weed, crack, meth and cheap alcohol the people will not rebel because they are either content with the current situation or disillusional. Also some riots happen after natural disasters especially when the poor cant flee a disaster a la katrina. With this debt crisis still lingering and wall sttreet still screwing over every american. Lets see what happens if this crisis were in still continues like this without a bullet dropped.
[sigh ...]

You make it sound as though the people buying drugs with tax payer funds are victims. They are not. It is even statistically impossible for that huge a group of people to be addicts, if one would see this as a reason for such behavior.

Something that does not make sense to me. There are numerous "interviews" with women in dire straights financially, given the contraction of the Advantage Program, for example, - and the fact that they did not follow through with its requirements - and similar. Each is a "single parent" of three, four, or five children ! One mistake I can kind of understand, although looking around a person would seem to offer a discouragement, finally. But several ? Again and again ?

I read a story the other day that quoted a woman as saying, People do not realize the difficulty of raising five children as a single parent. And yet no one questions her CHOICE, to be a single parent. Not once but five times. Another notable news story included a picture of a woman and three children, two under under the age of two. The interview foregrounded her "struggle," which had begun three years earlier. But ... two of her children were born during her "struggle." Why did she make that active CHOICE, to bear two additional children while living in a homeless shelter for a few months ? To have unprotected sex, indeed, to have unprotected sex with a person clearly not family material, and then to make that mistake numerous times ?

These people are not victims. They embrace a lifestyle because it is easier to hang out on the stoop, to bear child after child. I learned this, finally from working in this population, right here in NYC.

Need a job ? Become employ-able. Adopt the behaviors, habits, and dress of a person who works for a living. It is as simple as that.

And which social injustices do you mean, exactly ? You would need to be specific. Because to me, it appears that there are a great number of people actively making CHOICES. At the expense of taxpayers.

I think our money would be better spent helping people in Haiti, or in countries where there have been actual disasters or famines. Where people are suffering from serious and tangible political oppression.

And no, I am far from a conservative. I am a realist who pays attention to what I see around me, every day.

Touching back on the topic of the thread, if there are riots here, which I could actually see happening, it will be the people born into such substandard conditions. And I will have a difficult time seeing the "political" intention there, as many do now with the events in England.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
3,873 posts, read 2,663,991 times
Reputation: 1664
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post

As for the rest of "regular" suburban America, you throw enough people out of the middle class into poverty/near poverty, that is another recipe for revolts. So yeah, it can definitely happen here, and the pent up stress of everything (I feel it, and its growing), will reach some breaking point. When it will happen, who knows, but I could see a revolt of some sort in NYC or anywhere in this country.
I agree and feel it also. It would not be good if it there were violence, but there one might at least understand. The working class people with whom I am friendly are going to food pantries, several of them finally and grudgingly admitted. I have been helping a few with food for their beloved animals - not so available at the various pantries, and something they were willing to accept.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Bronx
8,460 posts, read 7,634,398 times
Reputation: 3911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
[sigh ...]

You make it sound as though the people buying drugs with tax payer funds are victims. They are not. It is even statistically impossible for that huge a group of people to be addicts, if one would see this as a reason for such behavior.

Something that does not make sense to me. There are numerous "interviews" with women in dire straights financially, given the contraction of the Advantage Program, for example, - and the fact that they did not follow through with its requirements - and similar. Each is a "single parent" of three, four, or five children ! One mistake I can kind of understand, although looking around a person would seem to offer a discouragement, finally. But several ? Again and again ?

I read a story the other day that quoted a woman as saying, People do not realize the difficulty of raising five children as a single parent. And yet no one questions her CHOICE, to be a single parent. Not once but five times. Another notable news story included a picture of a woman and three children, two under under the age of two. The interview foregrounded her "struggle," which had begun three years earlier. But ... two of her children were born during her "struggle." Why did she make that active CHOICE, to bear two additional children while living in a homeless shelter for a few months ? To have unprotected sex, indeed, to have unprotected sex with a person clearly not family material, and then to make that mistake numerous times ?

These people are not victims. They embrace a lifestyle because it is easier to hang out on the stoop, to bear child after child. I learned this, finally from working in this population, right here in NYC.

Need a job ? Become employ-able. Adopt the behaviors, habits, and dress of a person who works for a living. It is as simple as that.

And which social injustices do you mean, exactly ? You would need to be specific. Because to me, it appears that there are a great number of people actively making CHOICES. At the expense of taxpayers.

I think our money would be better spent helping people in Haiti, or in countries where there have been actual disasters or famines. Where people are suffering from serious and tangible political oppression.

And no, I am far from a conservative. I am a realist who pays attention to what I see around me, every day.

Touching back on the topic of the thread, if there are riots here, which I could actually see happening, it will be the people born into such substandard conditions. And I will have a difficult time seeing the "political" intention there, as many do now with the events in England.

sighhh with no relief.

Im not saying they are victims of the system, in matter afact I never said they were victims, they just abuse the system to its full potential and tehy depend on it. Its all about the system of control and manipulation and how it benefits lower class of the poor and the government to keep these people appeased and content. Go to any poor parts of Brooklyn, Bronx and Harlem and see buying food with there ebt cards to give to drug dealers for exchange for some drugs. Or exchange money for an ebt card to buy drugs. Its a sad reality and for many it offers no escape.

Wow thats a sad story about single parent moms, sad enough is that one day I passed by 161st street on my way to a yankee game, near the social services building and saw a whole bunch of Dominican and AA women waiting inline with kids of different shades and colors. I smh I asked to myself where are there dads, dead, upstate prison, deadbeat? Why did she take a guy that is not father and husband material, why she did not close or legs, buttocks or mouths for some romeo trickster I dont know but its her fault and not my problem becauuse I dont deal with people like that. People actively make wrong choices and society along with the media punish people and a group of people on a large scale for wrong choices. I may sound like a liberal but I'm actually an idealist and a rationalist and I do too pay attention of my surrondings and what goes on.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Bronx NY
344 posts, read 499,469 times
Reputation: 146
No. NYC has lost all it's street cred years ago. Maybe in Detroit,Chicago,or Philly. There are no more real people in NY.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,901 posts, read 4,661,606 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
I would love nyc to have a citywide riot. The last great citywide riot was in 1863 the draft riots. The greatest display of civil disobidence the u.s and the city of new york ever witnessed.
You need to do a little more homework.

First, "citywide" was only Manhattan. Manhattan was a MUCH smaller place with only a percentage of modern population levels.

If recollection is accurate, the 'riots' did not reach much higher than 42nd Street, which is where the orphanage was located. Aimed at blacks, most of the unrest was generalized to areas where blacks lived.

Uptown, 5th Avenue, and elsewhere where the rich lived was untouched.

******

There have been riots in Harlem 2 or 3 times since. There has also been widespread looting and pilaging during the late 70s blackout, as well as the most recent citywide blackout, which, I am told occurred in Far Rockaway (Perhaps I've been misinformed).

Of course, there have been major rioting after MLK's assination in many of the major cities. The Newark riot may be considered the most severe, requiring the national guard to regain control. Also, the LA riots, were large in scale and race based.

All of which were equal or greater in scope to the 'Draft Riots', when consideriing population levels, etc. Though, nothing equaled the racial vehemence and resentment toward the rich.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,253 posts, read 18,468,681 times
Reputation: 3744
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
as well as the most recent citywide blackout, which, I am told occurred in Far Rockaway (Perhaps I've been misinformed).
I didn't hear of any looting over here during the 2003 black out. Not to say that it didn't happen, but I didn't hear of any. I did however witness the news cover a story that looting occured at a sneaker store in Staten Island, and other random isolated incidents happened as such in different areas. At most, it was nothing widespread.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:31 PM
 
896 posts, read 945,823 times
Reputation: 959
I think it's very possible this(or worse) could happen in NYC with
the current economic crisis and inequalities in the city. When more
and more people losing their jobs and young people with no hope and
future, it doesn't take much to trigger a riot from something very
innocent like peaceful protest or parade. And then you have all the
criminals taking the opportunity to create chaos in the city, kind of
like the L.A riot back in 1992.

Now think of it, I really need an extra penis... err.. I meant gun to
protect myself and my family in case something like this happen in
the future.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Upper East Side, NYC
1,586 posts, read 1,895,164 times
Reputation: 1292
Even if I supported the cause, I would not participate in any protest/revolution/disturbance of the peace that included violence.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:25 PM
 
304 posts, read 530,230 times
Reputation: 127
Never forget about the Newark Riots of 67 the city has never really fully recovered.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Bronx
8,460 posts, read 7,634,398 times
Reputation: 3911
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
You need to do a little more homework.

First, "citywide" was only Manhattan. Manhattan was a MUCH smaller place with only a percentage of modern population levels.

If recollection is accurate, the 'riots' did not reach much higher than 42nd Street, which is where the orphanage was located. Aimed at blacks, most of the unrest was generalized to areas where blacks lived.

Uptown, 5th Avenue, and elsewhere where the rich lived was untouched.

******

There have been riots in Harlem 2 or 3 times since. There has also been widespread looting and pilaging during the late 70s blackout, as well as the most recent citywide blackout, which, I am told occurred in Far Rockaway (Perhaps I've been misinformed).

Of course, there have been major rioting after MLK's assination in many of the major cities. The Newark riot may be considered the most severe, requiring the national guard to regain control. Also, the LA riots, were large in scale and race based.

All of which were equal or greater in scope to the 'Draft Riots', when consideriing population levels, etc. Though, nothing equaled the racial vehemence and resentment toward the rich.
I think you need to check your information, even bronx historian llyod ultan who I managed to meet at a history seminar at bcc spoke about the bronx and the draft riots, it wasnt pretty in a business sense. Yes the riots did not touch the rich which lived from 59th to 125 street. Like all riotw most riots are contained and concentrated in poverty sections. Lets not forget 800000 people lived in nyc, thats alot back then thatw around the same size as todaya mid range us cities. Mind you americas population was 30 million people and 800000 lived in nyc. Cristies, brook brothers and lord and taylor were all burned down to the ground aswell as the ny tribune which was the nyt of its day. The riots were not only in manhattan bet spreaded to other counties like brooklyn and bronx. Draft riot is still the worst riot to date for both nyc and america. Even all the other riots in nyc of the 20th.century pales in comparison to the draft riots. The riots in la comes close or equal to the draft riots of nyc in destruction and quelling. The riots was based more on a richmans war and party affiliation compared to black and white. Remember the wealthy dont fight there wars the poor do. Also it was immigrants against black americans because of competetion for economic ladder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Es0...e_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2gn...e_gdata_player

Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 08-11-2011 at 12:39 AM..
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