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Old 08-24-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: New York City via Austin via Chicago
904 posts, read 1,718,211 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by latikeriii View Post
Big Money ruined hip-hop. Ironically, the 2 largest money makers put an end to the golden era. Master P and Puff Daddy(P-Diddy, etc, etc) help transistion in the pop, club rap era. Also, profits exploded in the late 90s. It's a lot more complicated but i'm too tired to type that much.
Ok, to elaborate a little more,around 96-97 or so, hip-hop started to really get glamarous and about the bling and Puffy was hugely responsible. Remember his videos? Mase? I believe that he used Biggie's tragic murder for his own gain on his album. No doubt, much of it was a damn good album but it did help start another era in hip-hop. More sampling of beats, more sounds to make you dance, and less lyrical depth. Rapping about money and material things at another level than before. Not all is negative about him though. In the mid-90s, Puffy was the remix king and sampled the heck out of some songs. He also popularized the R&B/Hip-Hop hybrid songs(Total, Mary J.,etc).

Once the profits really started flowing in, record companies further realized that most of the CD buyers were suburban kids with money. Many rappers started to cater more of their music to them(usually at the discretion of the record companies). Once other rappers started to realize how much money was in game, they followed suit. Rappers started coming out with CDs every year releasing crap(except for DMX in 98) instead of taking their time to really make good albums. Master P came out with albums under his label weekly and much of it was crap although most of those albums went platinum. Beats became more important that lyrics. LL Cool J helped rap go pop as well. Coincidentally, Southern Hip-Hop really exploded most of which was club music.

Subsequently, main stream rap became less substantive and more pop. I'm not going to lie that I liked a lot of that music but really didn't realize the damage that was being done to Hip-Hop. A lot of good hip-hop still came out but was more underground and less mainstream. However, a larger number of potentially great artists decided to go main stream and lost substance. Jay-Z, Nas, Outkast, others actually had a good balance between mainstream and substance. Biggie and Pac were arguably the best at being mainstream and having music of substance.

Of course, I could use the obligatory statement that everything changes and evolves but there are always reasons why things changed. I'm tired from working all days so sorry for rambling but this is my theory why hip-hop as changed. I used Puffy as a main example because NYC hip-hop was very influential during that time and he was the most popular "artist" then after Biggie's death. I'm still mad that Canibus didn't pan out, he was a great lyricist and stayed underground but he went psycho.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:31 AM
 
Location: South Bronx
1,183 posts, read 1,230,679 times
Reputation: 892
Default Joell Ortiz

There still some MC's reppin real hip hop


Joell Ortiz "Hip-Hop" - YouTube
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Long Island
7,617 posts, read 8,831,447 times
Reputation: 4853
What is real Hip-Hop? This term gets thrown around way too much, I'm just curious.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
2,734 posts, read 3,021,930 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Triny33 View Post
There still some MC's reppin real hip hop


Joell Ortiz "Hip-Hop" - YouTube
I remember when this song came out... Almost brought a tear to my eye... lol. A real tribute to NY old school music... But I'm definitely with you though, I think the term "hiphop is dead" gets thrown around too loosely... there's still serious talent out there... unfortunately it just gets overshadowed by the overwhelming amount of popular crap out there...

Joell Ortiz probably one of the best in the NY game right now thou... Battle Cry came out last year is just nasty...

Last edited by anon1; 08-25-2011 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 08-25-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: 20 years from now
3,682 posts, read 2,504,098 times
Reputation: 1935
Quote:
Originally Posted by latikeriii View Post
Ok, to elaborate a little more,around 96-97 or so, hip-hop started to really get glamarous and about the bling and Puffy was hugely responsible. Remember his videos? Mase? I believe that he used Biggie's tragic murder for his own gain on his album. No doubt, much of it was a damn good album but it did help start another era in hip-hop. More sampling of beats, more sounds to make you dance, and less lyrical depth. Rapping about money and material things at another level than before. Not all is negative about him though. In the mid-90s, Puffy was the remix king and sampled the heck out of some songs. He also popularized the R&B/Hip-Hop hybrid songs(Total, Mary J.,etc).

Once the profits really started flowing in, record companies further realized that most of the CD buyers were suburban kids with money. Many rappers started to cater more of their music to them(usually at the discretion of the record companies). Once other rappers started to realize how much money was in game, they followed suit. Rappers started coming out with CDs every year releasing crap(except for DMX in 98) instead of taking their time to really make good albums. Master P came out with albums under his label weekly and much of it was crap although most of those albums went platinum. Beats became more important that lyrics. LL Cool J helped rap go pop as well. Coincidentally, Southern Hip-Hop really exploded most of which was club music.

Subsequently, main stream rap became less substantive and more pop. I'm not going to lie that I liked a lot of that music but really didn't realize the damage that was being done to Hip-Hop. A lot of good hip-hop still came out but was more underground and less mainstream. However, a larger number of potentially great artists decided to go main stream and lost substance. Jay-Z, Nas, Outkast, others actually had a good balance between mainstream and substance. Biggie and Pac were arguably the best at being mainstream and having music of substance.

Of course, I could use the obligatory statement that everything changes and evolves but there are always reasons why things changed. I'm tired from working all days so sorry for rambling but this is my theory why hip-hop as changed. I used Puffy as a main example because NYC hip-hop was very influential during that time and he was the most popular "artist" then after Biggie's death. I'm still mad that Canibus didn't pan out, he was a great lyricist and stayed underground but he went psycho.
I agree with everything here, but arguably even the best years in hip hop (anywhere from say 87'-96) were a product of feeding that financial money making giant that made it so popular primarily because it was a demographic that "white America" became so facinated with at that time. That's when people like NWA, ice T and quite a few others gained noteriety and other rappers living the "hard life" became in high demand.

Prior to that "ghetto hard life" and the idea of drug dealers being emcees, self acclaimed mobsters, killers etc was far and few in between and most of them were simple nursery rhyme, lyrical schematics that included breaking, dancing quasi disco type movements that evolved from the 70s. Even some of the few rappers in the earliest videos portraying life in the streets sounded nothing like the Lox (for example).

Even if you think about the late 80s, early 90s--there really was nothing "pretty" about rappers (exclusions being Heavy D, LL and a few others). Most of them wore black on black every video, pointed guns at the camera and had a gang survival type of appearence to it (NWA, Dre & Snoop, Ghetto boys, Naughty by Nature, Wu Tang, Onyx, Black Moon etc). I think that trend was simply to due to the fact that it sold. But I also I think that's when most people began to think that rap was "ignorant" because the lyrics and video portrayals became very controversial, even to the point that the "explicit lyric" labels became required on albums and MTV had to bleep out lyrics and blur out body parts in videos.

Now I think people have ALWAYS been judgemental of rap, even back in the early 80s simply due to the fact that it was from the underclass, however people weren't afraid of what it represented back then either. But around 1987 or so... ALOT of that changed to my recollection. And A lot of people became rich and famous as a result of the bad publicity and controversy in the music. But back then--no one thought of Run DMC, LL Cool J, Kool Moe Dee etc as really "dangerous" or controversial. But NWA and those type of "f*ck the police" songs were another matter. Plus 2 Live Crew added another element to it. But otherwise, people just blew off the early 80s rappers back then as fads.

Either way, eventually it entered the stage you were talking about before. So I think it was always evolving under what big businesses saw as the bottomline.

But I also agree about Canibus. He's the best thing that never happened. As unorthadox as it may sound, I always thought his albums should have been strictly freestyle like. The common formula for success never really worked with what he brought to it.

Last edited by itshim; 08-25-2011 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
2,152 posts, read 1,307,380 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Klato View Post

absolutely. give it another 5 years and the mainstream will pick up on it. 50 cent is already trying his hand at it. surprised you didn't post young l, or lil b.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
2,152 posts, read 1,307,380 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYnowNC View Post
I just wanted to point out some of the old-school female Hip Hop artists like Salt & Pepa, MC Lyte, Roxanne Shante and Queen Latifah. They were all capable of performing without the overly sexy images you see today.
Salt & Pepa were slick with it though. for the most part they were real emcees but then they also had that lil kim thing down pat decades before those artists even thought of doing it. they really changed in the 90s. they weren't as nasty, and weren't as overt, but it was there, if you were willing to find it ...
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
2,152 posts, read 1,307,380 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by muxBuppie View Post








unfortunately. dude is very intelligent but he can also be a clown, and it is hard to tell why he is being a clown considering how good some of his psuedo-conscious music is.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
2,152 posts, read 1,307,380 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc2va76 View Post
It puts a smile on my face to know that people regard AZ as a top 5 artist. In my opinion, he was one of the most underrated artist in that era along with Kool G. Rap. I think that AZ had the best verse in Life's a Bi$#h with Nas on the Illmatic CD.
Kool G. Rap is the original NYC gangsta rapper IMHO. did what Jay-Z tried to do when he first came out like 2 decades prior, lol.
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
2,152 posts, read 1,307,380 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by muxBuppie View Post
Well, if you actually listen to the lyrics in the hook.

Gucci Gucci, Louis Louis, Fendi Fendi, Prada
The basic ******* wear that ****, so I don't even bother

You will see it is a very positive anti-materialistic be yourself message in the song.

it is. but if you listen to her other stuff there is nothing positive about it at all. her sister, v-nasty (yes, THAT, is what is supposedly nasty about her), is like the flavor fave to her being chuck d. most of her beats are from some clown whose own raps are extremely negative towards women. her mom was in a punk rock band back in the day.
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