Bloody weekend: 24 shot in 24 hours prompting Mayor Bloomberg to call for tougher gun laws (Russia: low crime, bad credit)

[itshim]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

thats silly, but to have opinions about things you really need a better understanding as to how things work.

most folks comment about every subject under the sun and do so with wives tales, myths , things they heard that are just wrong and then actually believing their own bull-sh*t.

before i judge about which is more lethal a gun or a knive i better understand ballastics and the effects on the body.

before i comment about the gun laws in nyc you should have experience understanding them to see how they play out and what they even are..

the list goes on and on but i guarantee you that maybe no more than a few here even know what nyc gun laws even are but they will comment all day long on them and how they arent tough enough. im not even sure what that statement is supposed to mean.

with a city of 15 million and 34,000 permits i would say there is already enough laws in place to even prevent honest citizens from getting a permit...

This is all irrelvent and based on the idea that everyone posting on the topic doesn't have a gun or hasn't read the NYS gun laws to begin with. You don't know the answer to either.

But in regards to your last sentence, I actually agree. As a matter of fact, I addressed that in my initial statement. We don't need "new" "harsher" gun laws, we need new, harsher penalties. The criminals in the article had criminal history. Harsher penalties would have kept them off the streets to begin with.

[itshim]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

prove it!


heres the opposite view

Gun-Related Deaths Decline as Gun Control Restrictions Ease « Just Americans Making Ethical Statements Weblog

Prove what? All I would have to do is post gun related violent crimes in 1990, and cross compare that with gun related violent crimes in 2010, and And then document what gun laws went into affect in what year and draw the comparison.

[barkomatic]

Originally Posted by itshim

With any of the statistical information that we do have available to us, I do believe it is within reason to conclude that gun violence is down by a considerable amount.

There is no reliable metric to determine a pattern of whether these crimes go unreported or not. It's an argument that can't be proven either way.

I also think that it is fair to give credit that stricter gun laws (and a host of other methods) have made a contribution to reducing gun related crimes.

If you think that stricter gun laws, along with gun buy back programs, the infiltration by undercover NYPD detectives to bottleneck illegal distributors, and other means to prevent guns from hitting the streets hasn't helped--I'd like to hear another reason for gun related violence being statistically lower today than it was at the peak of the NYC's hay days of the late 80's and early 90s.

I think the biggest reason gun violence is down is due to the mass gentrification of the city. Those most responsible for gun violence have simply moved out. It sucks, but those of lower economic status tend to resort to violence more. I'm not saying gentrification is a good/bad thing--just stating what I believe to be the fact.

[itshim]

Originally Posted by barkomatic

I think the biggest reason gun violence is down is due to the mass gentrification of the city. Those most responsible for gun violence have simply moved out. It sucks, but those of lower economic status tend to resort to violence more. I'm not saying gentrification is a good/bad thing--just stating what I believe to be the fact.

I believe that's true too, or atleast a major contributor. But certain neighborhoods haven't really been gentrified at all, and gun related crimes have been down in the worst of NYC neighborhoods as well without it.

[itshim]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

sorry thats not totaly correct.
gun ownership soared while homicides fell. ownership is at record highs.


Gun-Related Deaths Decline as Gun Control Restrictions Ease « Just Americans Making Ethical Statements Weblog

Notice I referenced illegal ownership. And who's James4America?

[ParkBorough]

Originally Posted by barkomatic

I think the biggest reason gun violence is down is due to the mass gentrification of the city. Those most responsible for gun violence have simply moved out.

Residents of public housing have moved out? Incidences of gun violence and other crimes here and everywhere else in the country are tied to the economy. Those few kids in every neighborhood who are borderline and might choose the straight and narrow path when there is opportunity might go the other way when there isn't. There has been a (ridiculous) notion going around for some time now that NYC had come up with a solution to the problem of crime, when we were really just the beneficiary of a robust, booming economy. Crime will continue to increase for awhile, and when the economy turns around it will decrease again. NYC's strict gun laws are here to stay. Washington as Bloomie calls it will laugh at him when he whines about the ones in other states.

[mathjak107]

first off we had a rash of ownership since obama took office that was beyond anything i have seen in the firearms industry in 25 years.

we had a bullet shortage ,you couldnt get anything but cheap crappie imported ammo for about a year. everything was sold out.

if gun violence dropped with the soaring ownership levels then that argument of more guns more violence doesnt hold true.

i also want someone to tell me what gun laws got stricter in new york the last decade. im not aware of 1.

[Bronxguyanese]

Sadly enough most of the the perps and victims in the past 48 houors of gun violence in NYC are black. My thing is that my professor from John Jay told me that blacks from NYC have guns because they have relatives in the south who they visit and buy guns down there and bring them up back to the city. Maybe gun violence in NYC will go down if more of the cities AA population go back down south. The city and state needs to do a better job of making it easier for locals to obtain gun licenses and permits and stop putting limits on gun regulation or even making stringent rules. It sucks that us New Yorkers remain defenseless from an armed criminal that is willing to cause harm to a community and other individuals. Cops dont offer any help because the cops are never around when things happen, they show up ten mintues later. A good thing Mott Haven and Melrose section of hte Bronx has Lincoln hospital if not it would have double the murder rate it has now. Mayor Bloombergs organization mayors against guns is a scam. In many of these middle class black neigborhoods and poor hispanic ones have good honest people living and working in them for many they will escape NYC and its silly gun laws and stop and frisk tactics that plague these communities. If you notice the people in NYC that wants to ban guns is the elitest liberal class who are primarily Jewi$h. Look at the below video about Jews and gun control.

Note Im not being racsit or antisemitic because I have a Hebrew name and also part black.

click on the video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-qO...yer_detailpage

[samyn on the green]

I admire your American pragmatism. You guys will take things to extremes to do things your own way regardless of noticing any underlying disordered philosophy.

It is like stumbling upon a family that does not like to use a toilet and simply defecates all over their house. Since they are American and it is part of their "freedom" to defecate and urinate all over their house the solution is to show up with a 50 gallon drum of formula 409 to scrub that sheethouse down and get it smelling fresh for a little while. It works great because somebody is going to make big money selling these people 50 gallon drums of cleaning products while ignoring the hard work of getting them to act civilized and using a toilet is not only hard but makes no money.

In the same way a "sheethouse" culture is sold on the TV and schools -NYC schools just approved a sex-ed program to formally push transient sex on 6th graders- which leads to the hostility to authority and proliferation of violence. The logical end of the crap culture of degenercy sold in the schools and media is violence in the same way the logical end to not using a toilet is a foul odor. I guess instead of trying to help these people by showing them the right way to live on the strait and narrow it is much easier to show up with a 50 gallon drum of cleaning solution -insiders make money selling cleaning products and building jails- to freshen up their moral sheethouse and the violence festooned all over it. The right thing to do would be to correct the underlying moral issues that leads to this violence.

Originally Posted by itshim

I'm fine with increasing the prison population with criminals, if it's criminals that need to be imprisoned. What the "rest of the world" does, doesn't concern me. I'd prefer harsher, quasi-Rockefellar like sentences to be complimented with the gun laws already in place. You want to pack heat? You want to prove how thug you are? You want to fire into an open crowd? Fine. Get caught and you won't see the light of day for a long, long time enough to ensure that you will never have the opportunity again, let alone the opportunity to breed. If you can mentally absorb that possibility, then you really are tough lol.

IMO the "moral frame work" (i.e. the problem is "society", not the individual) is simply an unsolvable, philosophical argument, that goes absolutely no-where--even if it does travel in circles. I've been hearing "society" being the problem for God knows how long, and "society" still hasn't been held accountable or brought before a judge or a prosecutor for questioning, let alone legislate change.

You can not hold "society" or the moral fabric of civilization accountable if the we don't even know who or what "society" is, and even if we did, how could "society" even speak up for itself let alone change its ways? The quick and easy answer is that it can't--so we're back at square one again.

[Bideshi]

If it turns out that this documented mentaly ill man obtained his AK-47 through some connection to "Fast and Furious", would that finally force Holder's dismissal, or will it be covered up?