U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-04-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,048 posts, read 33,170,381 times
Reputation: 10588

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I wonder what all you people would be saying about those Rabble-Rousers who formed the Continental Congress...or all those protests (violent and otherwise) against the British.

Let's learn our history and understand this is why were are all here!!!!! Protests which started small and became the USA.
The difference is that those 18th century rabble-rousers were for real. The ones hanging around Wall Street this week aren't part of a legitimate movement. And if anything they're doing has spread anywhere else in the country, could you please let us know where?

Revolutions begin in peoples' hearts, not on YouTube.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-04-2011, 11:38 AM
 
193 posts, read 277,791 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
To pretend that the vast majority in my generation endured what many Pre WW2 Americans did is absurd.
I never said that nor do I feel that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
Organize boycotts. Create/ patronize (good) businesses and model new ways of corporate behavior. Run and elect honest representatives.

Standing on a street and yelling how you've been screwed when you're also partly to blame is not the most successful way of accomplishing your goal.
Honest representatives? This protest is a result of the failure of the socio-economic-political system, high ranking elected officials do not care about you.

Protestors partly to blame for the financial crisis? I didn't know that unemployed recent grads, military vets, baby boomers with two jobs to pay their medical bills held the same clout as Bear Sterns.


"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -Frederick Douglass
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 11:46 AM
 
8,747 posts, read 17,635,612 times
Reputation: 4168
Fred you are being disingenous. This movement is in its infancy...and like all movements in the beginning, they are typically disorganized!!!! In time however, those which pass muster grow and transform our society (for better or worse). It is too soon to say that this will be a transformational movement, but it is also ignorant to say they are "disorganized" or "complaining about this or that" because this is how these things work.

I don't like the Tea Party, but I do recognize they were a disorganized group which drew on the growing sentiment at the time...and they are now a national organization making a profound impact (for better or worse) on government and ultimately our society.

How this will all play out is unknown, but to dismiss these people as dumb, silly, kids, disorganized, etc is a betrayal of ourselves and our history.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 11:50 AM
 
193 posts, read 277,791 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
The difference is that those 18th century rabble-rousers were for real. The ones hanging around Wall Street this week aren't part of a legitimate movement. And if anything they're doing has spread anywhere else in the country, could you please let us know where?

Revolutions begin in peoples' hearts, not on YouTube.
When will it be legitimate for you?

First you said a 125 people will show up and be gone like nothing ever happened.

Then you said there is no media attention.

Then you said they don't have clear motives.

You downplayed the videos of police brutality on Youtube, ignoring the fact that it is the most efficient outlet to spread videos quickly.

700 people just got arrested on a march across the Brooklyn Bridge. Joseph Stiglitz, Cornel West, Chris Hedges, Russel Simmons, Roseanne Barr to name a few have all came down and supported the movement. Major unions and community organizations have thrown their support behind the movement. Sister protests in LA, Boston, Chicago, Seattle have popped up and show the same beginnings as NY.

Like it or not, you're seeing the start of a legitimate movement.

Revolutions begin in people's hearts? Well you didn't see a youtube video of day 1 did you? That's because this was ignored.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 11:52 AM
 
193 posts, read 277,791 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
How this will all play out is unknown, but to dismiss these people as dumb, silly, kids, disorganized, etc is a betrayal of ourselves and our history.
To dismiss them as such would sound like that person has been ingesting certain media outlets.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 12:48 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 14,675,279 times
Reputation: 15329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe Vigoda View Post
To dismiss them as such would sound like that person has been ingesting certain media outlets.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. --Mahatma Gandhi
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 01:04 PM
 
3,327 posts, read 4,101,451 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe Vigoda View Post
I never said that nor do I feel that way.




Honest representatives? This protest is a result of the failure of the socio-economic-political system, high ranking elected officials do not care about you.

Protestors partly to blame for the financial crisis? I didn't know that unemployed recent grads, military vets, baby boomers with two jobs to pay their medical bills held the same clout as Bear Sterns.


"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -Frederick Douglass
You're comparing two very different sets of circumstances.
One is where the people are repressed and the other is where the people are ignorant.

The reason why we have a kleptocracy is that the vast majority of people rather watch American idol while surfing on their Ipad and waiting for a Domino's pizza order. This is a certain way to invite the corruption of your political system.

There are nations where corruption is present as a result of a repressive political system (India, China, Russia, etc) and there are nations where corruption is present because the citizenry is too lazy to be vigilant.

Comparing one with the other is akin to claiming that an individual with lung cancer as a result of (voluntary) smoking for decades should engender the same sympathy as a laborer who worked around asbestos. They both have lung cancer but that's where the similarities end.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 05:12 PM
 
193 posts, read 277,791 times
Reputation: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
You're comparing two very different sets of circumstances.
One is where the people are repressed and the other is where the people are ignorant.

The reason why we have a kleptocracy is that the vast majority of people rather watch American idol while surfing on their Ipad and waiting for a Domino's pizza order. This is a certain way to invite the corruption of your political system.

There are nations where corruption is present as a result of a repressive political system (India, China, Russia, etc) and there are nations where corruption is present because the citizenry is too lazy to be vigilant.
.
So then when a contingent of non-lazy vigilant citizens organizes a protest...ah forget it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 09:02 PM
 
1,682 posts, read 3,027,280 times
Reputation: 729
Love it!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Bronx
16,217 posts, read 21,780,383 times
Reputation: 8315
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheaosaurus View Post
It is getting ridiculous down there. While I don't agree with the protesters, nor what they stand for (I may be biased due to the fact that I do want to be an investment banker), I respect that some of them have valid points.
However, the other half are wasting the city's money by because police officers have to be payed overtime - and that comes out of MY pocket as well as everyone else in the city. I talked with one group who had cardboard signs that said "Abolish the IRS. Take down the government!" They said when they voted for Obama, they voted for change.

Half of these people know NOTHING and are brainwashed. And while I did not vote for Obama, I do relaize that he can not fix the whole economy in one term. You can't walk into Washington and just change everything. And abolishing the IRS - well, no comment there. I asked them how much they paid in taxes last year and most of them said they worked off the books as freelance artist. Oh! So they want to punish Wall Street when they do pay taxes to help support our country, but then they don't even pay taxes themselves.

Half these people need to go home and stop wasting my money. The other half that has a valid reason to protest and know what they stand for I have no problem with.



You want to be an investment banker but you dont understand the reasons for the protests? Yet you're calling them brainwashed and no nothings. I think you need to educate yourself here. They seem to get the message along with other Americans in other cities who have begun to do the same thing occupying their cities. Unions have also joined which could be a reason for the expansion of the protests.

I would assume that one of the main reasons why people are protesting is because they are fed up and frustrated with losing everything, paying, more and as a result receiving less or sometimes nothing at all. People have lost their homes, wages diminished and garnished, graduating with worthless college degrees with no future in sight, jobs and careers being sent overseas, etc. You dont have to worry about your money being used to pay for the NYPD's overtime. JPMorgan Chase just gave them $4.6 million for their enjoyment. Point is your tax dollars arent the only things helping them.

You mentioned that Obama cannot fix the economy in one term yet you seem to not undertsand that Obama does not control the economy off shore international banking interests do, Obama is just another puppet as was Bush, Clinton, and all those before him. Yet you call some of them brainwashed while some of them may have already received that message over the course of Obama's time in office. (That he is a puppet)

Abolishing the IRS, Well while I dont think that, that will ever happen I honestly do feel that people have a right to express how they feel about a criminal institution such as the IRS that takes a percentage of your hard earned income and sends it packing to the British bankers and the queen of England. Yes we still pay our taxes to the queen and Yes the IRS is not an American government agency it was created by the international banking interests in Europe to simply rob you of eveything you are worth as your money continues to be devalued through inflation taking more as time goes on. That may be the reason for their frustration with the IRS.

Again you have to educate yourself on this.

Many of the taxes being payed isnt really supporting America anyway instead we like to use it to blow up countries that pose aboslutely no threat sky high .

Also while some free lance artisits may have received money off the books IT DOESNT COMPARE TO HOW MUCH WALL STREET STOLE OR HOW MUCH IS TAKEN FROM YOU OUT OF TAXES EVERY YEAR. Oh and One more thing GE (General Electric) PAYED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN TAXES LAST YEAR IN 2010 so you should really take a look at your crticism of freelance artists as compared to coporate execs paying nothing. So it stands true that some Americans actually did in the year 2010 PAY MORE TAXES THAN GE. Period.

Im not hating on anyones ambitions of becoming an investment banker Im simply saying I find in strange how people criticize and they themselves do not know the answers to what they are criticizing.

If you really want to understand the corruption of our current banking system. Take a look at this vid, both parts. And dont let the animated features fool you. It is the truth for the most part, something our controlled propagandized history books negelcted to tell us.


watch?v=Itn1P4KpZpU
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 AM.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top