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Old 10-14-2011, 08:44 AM
 
193 posts, read 277,598 times
Reputation: 260

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
"you would still be a British subject, overtaxed, unrepresented, and a second class citizen begging for equal treatment, slavery would still be legal,"

Doesn't make much sense, slavery was abolished in the British Empire way before it ended in the US. Also, Lincoln was a republican.

"Do you think the Tea Party (the real historic one) revolt against the British would have succeeded had they simply had a civil "sit in", authorized and controlled by the British?"

Basically thats what worked for Ghandi in India against the British.
This isn't about Republicans and Democrats.

It worked for Gandhi, but what about Toussaint L'Ouverture? There are times when violence is necessary. Thankfully right now on Wall St it is FAR from necessary.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:44 AM
 
292 posts, read 678,673 times
Reputation: 208
Please. Noone should be attempting to justify the use of violence in moving these protests forward. A few idiots this morning decided it would be a good idea to throw bottles and garbage at the police, and received some deserved consequences.

Protesters Clash With NYPD Officers After Occupy Wall Street Demonstrators March Toward Wall Street « CBS New York
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:46 AM
 
8,747 posts, read 17,621,261 times
Reputation: 4168
BG7 we are speculating because nobody knows what would have happened. But what we can say is that our history, and the world's history, shows that most times, violence is necessary to impact change.

As for Ghandi, he and Martin Luther King both created a peaceful movement to impact change, but they both had violent groups that, although not specifically sanctioned by them, created the necessary amount of violence to help their peaceful protests succeed.

Artzilla, I get that you don't understand or appreciate that these protestors are fighting for you, while Wal-Mart and Skank of America are fighting for their profits, however nobody is advocating violence. We acknowledge, however that if the peaceful protest doesn't impact change, then civil disobedience (violence) may be necessary. And if you knew your history, you would realize without the "idiots" you hate so much, you wouldn't have 1/10 the rights you enjoy today.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:52 AM
 
Location: New York NY
5,178 posts, read 7,872,815 times
Reputation: 11637
^^

"Skank of America"!!

Never heard that one before. Love it!
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
24,428 posts, read 34,266,663 times
Reputation: 11953
And if one is chronicalling violence, it will clearly be seen that in this particular demonstration almost ALL the violence has been caused by the police. This is the way violence almost ALWAYS escalates. Remember at Kent State, 4 students didn't shoot THEMSELVES.

Get a YOU TUBE feed streaming on your TV (about 150,000 of them as of today) and see for yourself who is causing violence. Just search for OCCUPY WALL STREET and let it run.

The police wisely decided this morning to abort their plan to "clean" Zuccotti Park...that was a sane thing for the to do. Let's hope they have gained some common sense since that thug in a white shirt (ranking officer) emptied a can of pepper spray into the faces of a couple girls who were already wrapped in a net and doing nothing other than standing on a sidewalk chanting.

Last edited by Kefir King; 10-14-2011 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:11 AM
bg7
 
7,695 posts, read 9,821,917 times
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"but what about Toussaint L'Ouverture"

Resistance in a slave society (real slave society, not pretend slave society, please don't go there) versus resistance in a free society.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:37 AM
 
8,747 posts, read 17,621,261 times
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A free society indeed, so long as you file the right permit, don't litter, clean up after yourself, allow the police to run your name through their databases, and otherwise obey all laws, rules and regulations so as not to inconvenience anyone, or jeopardize any revenue generators, like tourism.

Kinda defeats the purpose of protesting to CHANGE our society when you have to do it within the confines of the rules and regulations which keep us all repressed in the first place!
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
24,428 posts, read 34,266,663 times
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Quote:
free society indeed, so long as you file the right permit
Correct, the Constitution does NOT say we have the right to peacefully asssemble IF WE HAVE A CITY PERMIT.
There is not need to ask a mayor for Constitutional rights.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Again that's NO LAW ABRIDGING THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE.

Thus no permit may be legally demanded by any mayor, even incredibly rich ones. No law may be passsed demanding that only such and such place may be used or that one cannot sit down or sleep while peaceably assembling. No law can legally be passed keeping people from demonstrating in parks, streets, sidewalks.
There is no right to drive a car down the street but the Constitution enshrines the right to demonstrate there.

Remember NO ABRIDGEMENT means exactly what it says.
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:47 PM
 
556 posts, read 1,388,797 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artzilla View Post
Please. Noone should be attempting to justify the use of violence in moving these protests forward. A few idiots this morning decided it would be a good idea to throw bottles and garbage at the police, and received some deserved consequences.

Protesters Clash With NYPD Officers After Occupy Wall Street Demonstrators March Toward Wall Street « CBS New York
One of my biggest problems with modern protest:
Everyone is trying to take a picture instead of actually being in the protest. Theres no need for 30 people with cameras to be on the front line.
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Old 10-14-2011, 12:52 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,490,436 times
Reputation: 215
Help if you can, please pass this on:

Send Vuvuzelas to the Protesters:

Occupy Wall Street opened a Post Office box.

Occupy Wall Street
118A Fulton Street
P.O. Box 205
New York, New York 10038 USA

Please send supplies. This is a UPS store and any size packages are OK.

Be heard. Send Vuvuzelas.

Vuvuzela Stadium Horns - School Spirit - Theme & Event Parties
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