Would Archie Bunker survive in Queens today? (wages, jobs)

[mead]

The message of Teddy Roosevelt for our day and age was basically for immigrants not to be FOBs. Unfortunately many new immigrants aren't being taught this lesson and as a result you have FOBs running all over the place thinking that its ok not to speak English or behave like Americans.


This probably is largely the result of the history of the Hermit Kingdom, modern-day Korean nationalism, and the extreme homogeneity of the Korean penninsula.


Cheers!

Originally Posted by BXGEAR

I always had a problem with this quote. Teddy R is from another time. He is not from 2008 so he would have no idea what we know. Americans are everyone. An American can be of their parents culture and an American- a hybrid. Americans can be any person on this planet, who decides to live in America. Allegiance? That is an old term from times when there was deep distrust between countries. Not everyone is rich, they cannot afford education, or maybe they dont know the power of education. You can't only speak English, how are you going to talk to your parents? Grandparents?

[coped]

I just don't buy it that immigrants wanted so much more to become assimilated in the old days. Some strove for it, some didn't. I think we romanticize the ones that did. My father talks about living on W. 106th in the 40s and 50s. Everyone was Irish. According to hime, you could live a life without having to interact with anyone that wasn't Irish if you didn't want to, and that's what most people in the neighborhood did. Some wanted to get out of the neighborhood, some didn't. Some people came over from Ireland for a few years and went back. Some stayed. Of course, the Irish already spoke English and were the lightest shade of white, so they had that leg up on other groups. But I don't see much difference in the immigrant groups of today, besides race and language. The ones in those groups that want to assimilate are overshadowed by those that don't.

[Classicalguy]

Well, look what happened - they DID become assimilated. The prejudice against the Irish that existed at the beginning of the 20th century is completely gone. The italians, germans, and even the japanese were incredibly patriotic during WWII. Same thing today. Immigrants are very patriotic, and most want to be come part of the fabric of america. Of course initially people are most comfortable with those they know, but they are open to others and eventually blend in. The only community that over a long period of time has not blended in well is the african-american community. Part of that was due certainly to terrible Jim Crow laws. But recently I think the changing goals of the civil rights movement have made matters worse. Giving special benefits because of racial background creates a strong incentive not to integrate, and causes substantial tension between groups vying for benefits. When MLK was marching, he was supprted by and supported jewish rights and hispanic rights groups. Now there is great distrust between these three communities. There is a growing backlash by whites and asians, and every day new groups are forming to demand special benefits too. Laws that prevented integration to serve the majority are now preventing integration by serving minority groups. Integration built this great country, and it should be the goal of government to foster it at all levels, IMO.

[Classicalguy]

Originally Posted by BXGEAR

You can't only speak English, how are you going to talk to your parents? Grandparents?

No one said that people should ONLY speak English. There is a difference between speaking English and another language, and speaking only another language. Everyone should speak English first. But speaking other languages too is a great blessing.

[Classicalguy]

Originally Posted by sues1

Americans could be "driving what's little of this so-called economy right now" if our jobs were not being outsourced. Let them stay in Mexico and drive their own economy.

This is total BS. Mexicans are not taking American jobs - they are doing jobs that Americans don't want to do. The jobs that Americans do want are being sent overseas, some to Mexico, because of cost. Health care costs in the US are killing American business.

[Classicalguy]

Originally Posted by mead

It already does. Just go visit South Florida or many areas of the Southwest and you will see it.

You missed my point. We have no laws anywhere, to my knowledge, requiring signage to be in a particular language the way Quebec does, or requiring people to speak a certain language at work the way Quebec does. And we shouldn't have laws like that. We shouldn't legislate private conduct. But we should encourage English proficiency. Having rules that official governmental business will be done in English, that school children will be educated in English, and that citizenship requires English proficiency seems reasonable to me.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Classicalguy

You missed my point. We have no laws anywhere, to my knowledge, requiring signage to be in a particular language the way Quebec does, or requiring people to speak a certain language at work the way Quebec does. And we shouldn't have laws like that. We shouldn't legislate private conduct. But we should encourage English proficiency. Having rules that official governmental business will be done in English, that school children will be educated in English, and that citizenship requires English proficiency seems reasonable to me.

I guess you've never been to miami, regardless of any laws, english is not the language there. If you are not a spanish speaker common everyday living ca be quite difficult there

[crisp444]

English IS the de facto language of government, education, and big business in Miami just as it is everywhere else in this country. Sure, you might not hear a lot of English spoken on Calle Ocho or in Hialeah, but I assure you that if you ever have to go to court or send your children to school, business is done in ENGLISH and not Spanish. Many people I know in Miami (some of them Hispanic, some not) speak little to no Spanish and get by just fine. Many people on this forum have a very hard time understanding that just because you hear someone speaking Spanish DOES NOT MEAN that they a) don't speak English or b) are not assimilated. I speak fluently both languages and sometimes choose to speak Spanish even though I spend most of my time speaking English and English is my first language - I was born and raised in this country.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by crisp444

English IS the de facto language of government, education, and big business in Miami just as it is everywhere else in this country. Sure, you might not hear a lot of English spoken on Calle Ocho or in Hialeah, but I assure you that if you ever have to go to court or send your children to school, business is done in ENGLISH and not Spanish.

sorry to say, that has not been my experience, airport, hotel, car rental and shop clerks I've encountered all had trouble conversing in english. Maybe in government installations english is the main langauge but out in the everyday world most of us have to deal with, be a non spanish speaker in Miami is not easy. Anecdoctaly I've heard it is hard for the non bilingual to find employment, even in the larger corperate offices

[ontheGtrain]

Originally Posted by Classicalguy

This is total BS. Mexicans are not taking American jobs - they are doing jobs that Americans don't want to do. The jobs that Americans do want are being sent overseas, some to Mexico, because of cost. Health care costs in the US are killing American business.

You could not be more wrong. In the southeast and western part of the country most of the trade jobs in construction and plumbing, which use to provide AMERICANS with little formal education good paying jobs, have been taken over by illegal aliens willing to work for substandard wages. Americans cannot compete because we do not want live 20 people in to a 2 bedroom.
Your argument is total BS.