Too many "dreamers" in this forum (New York, York: salons, mortgage)

[Elvira Black]

Plus, when areas get too gentrified, the local residents who helped gentrify it get angry. Some people who moved to a hood for the edginess are the first to complain when too many bars/clubs open and keep them up at night. Then they complain about the mom and pops going out of business and the chain outlets that replace them because commercial rents are so sky high, and completely unregulated.

What do they want, exactly? Clones of themselves; a hood that is somehow both edgy and desirable, affordable and spacious, with Starbucks plus the old mom and pops. They'd like to pick and choose and feel entitled to their perfect dream of a NYC that never really existed anyway.

I went to Union Square the other day--the area was so crammed that there was not one inch left to sit down anywhere. I'd been meaning to visit Trader Joes (never been) and the lines were halfway around the store to buy the trendy "essentials" that Manhattanites now demand.

As I've said before, NY'ers love to complain, no matter what their circumstance.

[Guywithacause]

Agreed Elvira...if it is not the "outrageous housing prices, it's the trains, gas prices, milk, cigarettes, roads, taxes, pollution..it goes on and on..housing just happens to be the latest....

[Suzer]

An observation that amuses me -

Now that I live near Milford, PA and no longer have a Trader Joe's, I grouse that the only decent store around, Price Chopper, is so much more expensive than Trader Joe's.

[Elvira Black]

Yes, I think the prices are fairly good. Guess next time I won't try it on a Friday at 6 pm!

[yodel]

I like the fact that the boroughs are not as urban and busy as Manhattan, yet not suburban. You can have a car, for when you need it, but usually don’t have to use it (that’s my experience anyway.) Actually I should avoid generalizations about the boroughs because they’re so varied in terms of public transport, open space, things to do, cleanliness, etc. I can survive without a Trader Joes in my neighborhood, but I would love a bookstore, movie theater, Thai restaurant. For those things we get in the car or subway (there’s a Trader Joes in Scarsdale, which is surprisingly close to the Bronx by car). However, we are within walking distance of so many things, including the things Elvira listed earlier (Bot. Gardens, Zoo) and have good access to mass transit and are often in Manhattan for the museums (we get in free to most because of my husband’s work), Central Park (great playgrounds) and other activities.

We bought about three ½ yrs ago, and yes it was cheaper at that time, but much more expensive than say 5 or 10 years ago. If you are middle class in NYC these days, it’s impossible to be a first time buyer and get everything you want in terms of your neighborhood or property, even in the boroughs. It’s too bad but that’s life. If you decide to move out of the area, Roseba, good luck. Unfortunately even the NYC suburbs are pretty unaffordable. Maybe prices will go down and it will become easier to buy. Who knows? I don’t. I wish I could afford a brownstone in Park Slope but I can’t, and I don’t think dwelling on it would get me anywhere. For us to get what we did, it took finagling, or extra work and effort. Finagling to get a special deal on our mortgage from the bank to buy our house, finagling to get our kids in a good public school outside our neighborhood, finagling to get decent work done in our house without taking out a second mortgage. It can all be very tiring, but staying in the city was real important to us. To others it doesn’t matter as much.

[mead]

Why would I want to go to Trader Joe's when I've got C-Town? ;-)

[THASPECIAL]

Originally Posted by Hustla718

The homes immediately around the low income public housing projects deal with the problems from those developments. The problems don't just stay on NYCHA property. Depending on factors such as: income, race, housing makeup in the neighborhood, will tell you exactly how much a problem the housing is to the area.

For example, a public housing project in East Harlem will effect a very large area. This is becuase the surrounding neighborhood has similar demographics and lots of low income public housing complexes.

On the other hand, take a housing project Flushing. Yes that single housing project effects the areas adjacent to it, however it is mostly contained. Why? Different demographics outside the complex. Neighborhood is "well kept" compared to an area with a lot of public housing like East Harlem where things are run down. A difference in tolerance. In Flushing, crimes are commited outside the project and police are called, so the project crime pretty much sticks nearby. In East Harlem, so many crimes are commited around the neighborhood, it is tolerated.



I may see negative but I also see a lot of positive. Good things happen in the ghetto belive me. We ain't robots and I wasn't always a cop. I didn't just step in the ghetto one day, I grew up in the ghetto. However, why would anyone want to expose themselves to the negatives of low income ghettos? It's not only crime, there are so many problems in those areas you want to distance yourself from. The ghetto drags you down, I have seen it over, and over, and over. People die trying to distance themselves from that.

As for the percentage of people victimized. Most Americans will be the victim of a crime in their lifetime. Yes there are only so many crimes per year, but some people live for 70 years. There are so many unreported and non felony crimes most people especially in low income areas are victimized many times over. I know I have. If you have never been the victim of a crime, you are VERY fortunate. Then again, your not dead yet.

I agree..........I know ive gotten on to New York transplants that come to my state (Florida) alot and they talk about how much safer things are in Florida after moving to the suburbs here, but i think we are both coming from the same mindset....i guess im telling these people that think its all palm trees and nice sunsets down here....well im telling them the same things you are saying to your local population there...and that is there is alot of things that arent reported in all areas and crime can happen to you....consider yourself lucky or very prepared if it hasnt yet......i once thought that i wouldnt be a victim after i moved out of Miami (where i was always watching my back)...and moved to Orlando....Well i was in a nice area of Orlando and got robbed at gunpoint and the guy who robbed me took my ID and said he would come to my house and kill me if he heard that i repoted him to the cops....so i didnt report him....i dont know if that is good or bad but i know at the time how i felt with his gun in my stomach and the shock i was in..and he had my address and i didnt tell because i didnt want my mother to get hurt .....my father was a cop in Miami like you are in NYC and i deliver pizza and hear more about robberies at pizza places in my area then the average citizen would believe there to be...so it doesnt matter if there are jobs that experience alot more negative things...because those things are actually happening to "someone" out there.....at the same time live your life but be carefull

[Guywithacause]

Yodel I agree with you. Roseba should refocus her time on creating a strategy to get the lifestyle that she wants, instead of seeimingly whining about why she can't have what she wants at the price she sets. Living in NYC was never easy, and it has only become harder....agreed! Now the question should be...how do we adjust to the changing dynamics...I can't afford Park Slope either so I live in Mott Haven. It is not glamorous, fabulous, and there is no Whole Foods, but it is a place I can afford, it is safe, comfortable, easy access to the city, shopping is affordable for staples, and I enjoy the grittiness and edginess....not all of us can.

Thaspecial...where Hustla and I differ is that, although we are both from "the ghetto", he would rather have mainstream America and anyone worthwhile continue to abandon these communities, which I believe was the very root problem and is what got us in this mess in the first place. I believe investment is needed, not just money, but new faces, attitudes, perspectives, interactions, and intergration, instead of leaving these inner city communities completely cut off from society. As more people and business continue to move in and invest, the changes/improvements will be amplified, and many of the local residents welcome the new faces and interest. I just don't understand how the theory of continued abandonement will serve any purpose....it has proven not to work already.

[THASPECIAL]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Yodel I agree with you. Roseba should refocus her time on creating a strategy to get the lifestyle that she wants, instead of seeimingly whining about why she can't have what she wants at the price she sets. Living in NYC was never easy, and it has only become harder....agreed! Now the question should be...how do we adjust to the changing dynamics...I can't afford Park Slope either so I live in Mott Haven. It is not glamorous, fabulous, and there is no Whole Foods, but it is a place I can afford, it is safe, comfortable, easy access to the city, shopping is affordable for staples, and I enjoy the grittiness and edginess....not all of us can.

Thaspecial...where Hustla and I differ is that, although we are both from "the ghetto", he would rather have mainstream America and anyone worthwhile continue to abandon these communities, which I believe was the very root problem and is what got us in this mess in the first place. I believe investment is needed, not just money, but new faces, attitudes, perspectives, interactions, and intergration, instead of leaving these inner city communities completely cut off from society. As more people and business continue to move in and invest, the changes/improvements will be amplified, and many of the local residents welcome the new faces and interest. I just don't understand how the theory of continued abandonement will serve any purpose....it has proven not to work already.

It all sounds like a great idea really......but i dont know if drug dealers or other people who get by in life on the easy route will want things to change....because its hard to make all that money like they do without doing a hard job.....and then giving that lifestyle up to go to a normal job with a boss that you cant pull a gun on just because he pisses you off......



but i think your idea would be good for younger kids and other individuals that are just stuck in the mayhem of living in a ghetto area.....it will give them hope

[Guywithacause]

Agree Thaspecial..however the drug dealers are a very small part of the community. it only takes one drug dealing operation to hold and entire housing project of 5,000 people hostage and branded as crime-ridden. The vast majority are not drug dealers, and are law abiding...and they welcome the new faces and investment as a way to improve their community and hopefully, their plight somehow. The drug dealers no doubt are not happy about it...but they will adjust to the changes and life goes on.