Too many "dreamers" in this forum (New York, York: work, property)

[think.reciprocity]

Originally Posted by SilkCity0416

^^^ I'm sorry, but Briair and Hustla have some strong points.

As I stated in my comment - there are things I'd like to agree with but when they are so heavy laden in the sort of energy & language that I see here - I find myself unable to add any positive fuel to that sort of fire...

[Guywithacause]

Thanks cyrus. That's not to say that merely a change in attitude will solve all the problems, however a change of perception and attitude is a BIG step on the path to achieving the kind of improvement and revitalization that is finally coming to the area.

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by Hustla718

As for the NY Times, The Real estate section is advertisement. It's infuenced by investors. They are trying to make a sale, so they hype things up. To make it look worthy for a buy.

I see this stuff all over the internet and in print. Some of it is ridiculous. Every neighborhood is supposedly getting better, even if it really isn't and there is no reason to suggest that it will. Not just NYC at all, but other cities especially like San Francisco and Chicago. For instance, a book I'm reading suggests the Tenderloin in SF is starting to gentrify - which is a ridiculous assertion if you know anything about the neighborhood and the reason why so many poor people live there.

briarwood made a good post. These days in this country there is all this liberal brainwashing about poverty and crime in the USA (and I say this as a person who tends to be very left wing). All this blind optimism doesn't do a thing to change reality. It's just a fact that a lot of people will believe what they want to - whatever sounds nice and pleasant - rather than the reality.

[Concept]

^ true. i would love to see those same advertisers live in the ghettos they promote so highly, for a month...and then come back and tell us how great it is. lol

[Guywithacause]

I agree with you Milliano. Much of the revitalization that is occuring in these types of neighborhoods is blown way out of proportion just to sell papers, and keep people buying/investing. There is no doubt about that, however that same marketing ploy applies to everything, not just housing.

However, that fact should not take away from the vast improvements and revitalization that is occuring in these communities. Do they still have unacceptably higher crime? Yes. Are there still way too many poor, and those struggling? Yes. Are the schools still in dire need? Yes. However, instead of rehashing the same tired information (yes, we get it, these places have serious problems), they are at least giving a new, fresh perspective, and finding glimmers of hope, where before there weren't any. That is not to say that we forget about all the problems, but I believe we can also acknowledge the good things also, and the positive steps being made.

Clearly the stories are hyped and just fluff, but how often did Bed-Stuy, East New York, or Bushwick really get positive news or stories over the past 30 years....rarely. It is a welcome change of attitude and perception for the communities and residents, many of which take great pride in living there, despite the numerous problems and malcontents.

[Elvira Black]

Originally Posted by Concept

^ true. i would love to see those same advertisers live in the ghettos they promote so highly, for a month...and then come back and tell us how great it is. lol

This is true, HOWEVER...

What about people who have actually lived in the Bronx for a long time, and are speaking from their experience, rather than fantasy? Hustla dismisses them all, saying that it's only a matter of time until they are victims. This seems (no pun intended) like a cop-out to me.

I remember NYC in the 70s and beyond (Manhattan, that is)...my boyfriend lived in Alphabet City in various tenement apts. He got mugged at knifepoint twice, his apt was burglarized, the woman next door to him was murdered. He'd hear a scuffle in the hallway, look through the peephole, and see guys with their shirts off having a knife fight. He used to have a broomstick with a knife attached to the top, machete-style, in his apt for protection. And so on and so on...

I lived on the Lower East Side also, in the Grand Street coops. Although there was certainly lots of "action" taking place around there, I and my aunt and uncle were not victims either. My aunt's lived on the LES her entire life. There were and are loads of housing projects around there as well.

Not to say that noone got victimized or the surrounding areas weren't "rough", but among those I knew, it was the rare exception rather than the rule to be a vic. You certainly didn't wander around at night on the tenement side streets unless you were looking to cop some horse.

My point? My boyfriend still has PTSD from his earlier experiences, and is still VERY wary, but his near-decade in the Bronx has been infinitely safer than his time on the LES of decades ago.

Maybe I am "too" optimistic--we're always joking when I point out a few white faces and I speculate that the 'hood will probably have more young whites moving in soon (for better or worse). He mocks me about my "claims" that the 'hood will soon become a "white paradise," and calls Fordham Road (esp by Fordham U, etc.) a "hiphop hellhole" (he walks through this area almost daily on his walk to the Botanical Garden, which is like going into another world altogether.) He lives right near the block where those young hoodlums attacked several guys and killed one recently, and it is sobering, no doubt. But murders still happen in every borough, daily.

Yes, it is prudent to watch your back in NYC. But if I'm too optimistic, I think some on this thread are too pessimistic--taking the scenario of the 70s and refusing to see that the Bronx is safer than it once was. Personally I'm much more afraid of another terrorist attack.

Hustla's experience is much different, and it is probably true that if you live in the projects and people around you are thugs that you will not be too hopeful about the Bronx's future. I also have a feeling Hustla does not have first hand knowlege of living in Manhattan during the bad old days, so he didn't see firsthand how areas started to change dramatically over the years.

I know that poor people are still moving to the Bronx, but being poor/minority does not always=crime. Those real estate guys have probably never lived in poor areas. I and my b/f have. Doesn't first hand experience have any validity?

[briarwood]

Originally Posted by think.reciprocity

I find myself shaking my head in disbelief a great deal as I read posts like this. Even though there are things that I may agree with & would like to comment on - I am so disgusted by the clear racist tone of these sort of messages that the only thing I can possibly say in response is that:

"God don't like no ugly" (and much of this is mighty ugly)

And leave you all (meaning those of that mindset) to your own miserable thinking...

... this time only a 1/2 cent worth...

Oh, please. There's no color mentioned in any of my posts. In fact, this response is everything that's wrong with these "newcomers". Someone dares goes against the tolerance gestapo and speaks harsh yet color-blind truth, and the young liberal SS footsoliders are out in full force.


Weither it's Blacks in Harlem, Ricans in the Bronx or Whites in Alphabet City, trash is trash, and I say good riddence.

What do you think of the white heroin junkies on the LES? How about the White homeless bums in Midtown? I want them gone too, no matter what color.

[Guywithacause]

Agreed Briarwood.

[baby_firefly]

Originally Posted by Hustla718

. An increase in income disparity. I see a city which has made it impossible for anyone above low income but not yet upper middle class to survive. Only the wealthy can truely live it up in this city. Housing selling for MUCH more then it's worth. From a housing standpoint, NYC is the biggest rip off in the USA.

All I will say is be careful about where you move. I'm surprised people on here have not called Rikers Island "up and coming."

that is very true you either have to be a mini donald trump or dirt poor to live in nyc not to mention most of the people are no bargain either not trying to offend just lots of rudeness and me me me types

i always laugh when i see the yuppies on here so matter of fact that they know everything about the city there is to know please lol give me a break

[think.reciprocity]

Trash? Wow... Seriously? Wow...

Sad that anyone would consider other human beings "Trash"... Ever, under any circumstances.

Originally Posted by briarwood

Oh, please. There's no color mentioned in any of my posts. In fact, this response is everything that's wrong with these "newcomers". Someone dares goes against the tolerance gestapo and speaks harsh yet color-blind truth, and the young liberal SS footsoliders are out in full force.


Weither it's Blacks in Harlem, Ricans in the Bronx or Whites in Alphabet City, trash is trash, and I say good riddence.

What do you think of the white heroin junkies on the LES? How about the White homeless bums in Midtown? I want them gone too, no matter what color.