Too many "dreamers" in this forum (New York, Union: second mortgage, transplants)

[roseba]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Roseba, all I can say is that you are exaggerating , in my opinion.

The outer boroughs do have museums, and many areas have a variety of great restaurants (parts of Queens in particular) and other cultural amenities.

Take my neighborhood in the Bronx. Plenty of transit options; 40 minutes to midtown.
A beautiful well kept park down the street.
A new state of the art library that offers cultural events regularly, including a monthly lecture series in conjunction with MOMA which gives free family passes for five to MOMA. Two universities which also offer cultural events--concerts, lectures, etc.
Walking distance to Botanical Garden, Little Italy (and its incredible markets and bakeries), and the Bronx Zoo.
Two supermarkets right near the complex.

Very few neighborhoods in the 4 boroughs have so much in walking distance. Your neighborhood. Forest Hills. Park Slope. Brooklyn Heights.

Middle Village doesn't have that. (Though it's pretty.) Maspeth? No. Ridgewood. No. Certainly not Bushwick. How about Mill Basin? No. How about Howard Beach? No. How about Bayside? No. How about Cambria Heights? No.

Get the point.

Why did I get my piece of the pie? Because I was willing to move from a cramped Upper East side walkup to a much less glamorous neighborhood coop with lots of space, river view, laundry, elevator, eat in windowed kitchen, and so on--in Manhattan. It was an adjustment, but the only way to win in NYC is to buy while it is affordable--before the hood becomes "discovered." In other words, you pay your dues.

That's a crock. The last time I was in Parkchester, in the late 1980's it was a decent place to live. It was NOT ever a crappy neighborhood.

But you didn't answer my question. I suspect it is because of the answer.

You got your pie in the past. But if you had to start over without any equity, could you afford it. I think you would not be able to.

And a one bedroom is suitable for a couple, but certainly not for a family.

Your example of 600 a month mortgage and 300 maintenance comes out to 900 a month. This is unaffordable?

Who said anything about 600 a month for a mortgage. Who pays that little? Not anyone who has bought property in the last... say 20 years.

But I don't see the point in presenting NYC in such a grave light.

I do. It's called the class warfare. It's called political pandering. It's called the elected officials allowing sweetheart deals to happen at the expense of the middle class.

Basically what you have said in this forum as that you got lucky in the past by buying before the prices became outrageous.

But you fail to admit that EVEN YOU can not afford to live the lifestyle you are living, if you had to start FROM SCRATCH.

The reality is a lot bleaker for those who have to start from scratch. And you just refuse to admit that. Paying your dues, paying your shmooze. Don't give me that. The current housing market is not a market for paying your dues. It's an absurdity. Paying your dues is saving for 5 years to buy a small house. Paying your dues is not saving for 20 years to buy an apartment. That's absurd.

There are plenty of other people--millions in fact--who are happy to live here. What is the point of what you are posting, other than to convince yourself that you will be happier elsewhere?

I have two points:

1) to inform people who are not from NYC what it is really like for those who didn't have the biological luck (age), and financial luck, to get in early before the housing got outrageous how unlikely it is that they will live the life of "friends", or "sex in the city" unless they are wealthy.

**Fact is, the majority of home-owners in the boroughs cannot afford to buy their own home if they had to do it all over.

2) Giving people information empowers them to speak out, and know they aren't alone. That results in political activism.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by clubBR

Roseba considers only Manhattan to be New York City. Her logic is perverse

I have no problem with provinical if it's cheap. But the problem is, is that you get provincial and pricy.

If I'm going to pay a mint, then I don't want to live in someplace Provincial. And most of the 4 boroughs are provincial.

Now... if my rent was 50% less, that would change my opinion of it.

But to pay a lot of money to live in provincialville is a serious rip off. And that is what most tourists coming to live to NY won't know until they have lived it.

[roseba]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Also: there are at least three vitamin/health shops in my area. Plenty of shopping on Fordham Road. Everything is cheaper, so you save money.

Living the Manhattan lifestyle is very expensive. Going out to eat, to bars, etc is nice but costs money. Very hard to live cheaply there, aside from the rent. Hard to save enough to invest in property.

You mention you have a child. Thing is, that was your choice. Many folks who have kids choose the suburbs for that reason. If you're wealthy, you can live in Manhattan in a space ample enough for children. Some move out anyway.

You know how many health food stores in my neighborhood? Zero.

You know how many train lines in my neighborhood. One, only runs steady Mon-Fri. You can't rely on it on weekends.

You know how many good restarants in my neighborhood. 2 Italian restarants that are so-so. Stuff we cook at home. Chinese food. Only take out with pictures on the menu. No Indian. No Thai. No other cuisine. Oh yeah, you can eat well if you like Polish food. (An Oxymoron)

The library has no toddler programs, no kid programs, no book readings, no book clubs. No special events.

There is not a single nursury school, or preschool in the neighborhood.

You know how many decent wine stores? One that carries any variety of wine.

There are no record stores.

You know how many hardware stores. One that carries a variety of things. But it doesn't carry vacume bags or mops.

You know how many food markets that sell a wide variety of spices and herbs, and high end ingredients? None.

Any international markets. No.

You know what the going rent is? $1500. And mortgages? $500K and climbing.

Is it worth it for a provincial neighborhood with no ameneties. No.

[Elvira Black]

Well, then I'd say you're just in the wrong hood! In my area, rents are drastically cheaper than elsewhere. You'd be able to get a larger apt for much less. Lots of parochial schools. Nice parks for kids to play.

If I had to start over, no, I could not afford to buy the LES apt I just sold. But that is the case in NYC now, and elsewhere. Hence the mortgage/credit crisis. People buy more home than they can afford in order to realize their dreams to "have it all"--at any cost.

If I didn't sell the coop and wanted to live here? Well, I almost did so--about 8 years ago. Prices were about half what they are now for the same Bronx coops. But my ex-boyfriend was finally forced to stop stalling and sell our coop on the LES. I'd been saving up like crazy, being super frugal (but with the occasional extravagances) for years, so I could handle the down payment on the Bx place even if we hadn't sold.

Most NY'ers have apartment horror stories. People who used to live in great areas like Park Slope--only to have the landlord try every which way to get them out pronto. People whose Mitchell Lama apts went market rate. Living in sub-human conditions that no one would put up with anywhere else. Some Manhattanites currently do just that--sharing a 300 sq foot studio in Chelsea; and on and on.

When I lived on E 83 Street from '79-91, I spent an enormous amount of time looking for an apt with more space in Manhattan. I saw zillions, and most were beyond my price limit at the time. I almost got one that was really pricier than we could afford, but was perfect otherwise. By the time I called my b/f and got back to the realtor, it was gone. Even looked in Blkyn, but got cold feet because...well...it wasn't Manhattan!

One of the things that finally convinced me to look into the LES coop were situations such as this. Not a matter of luck really. I just did what seemed sensible/beneficial at the time. I gave that fifth floor walkup a run for 12 years--but we now needed more space and other "adult" amenities.

Now don't all jump in at once, people--anyone else have an opinion?

[Elvira Black]

PS: I lived in the "Boonies" of Queens for the first 15 years of my life: Glen Oaks Village, a garden apt complex, right near the Nassau border. About an hour and a half to the city. My dad commuted daily. My mom went in with me when she could.

But...for a kid, it was great. Just to let you know that the complex is now coop and prices are still fairly reasonable. Rated the best school district in the city, I believe. Safe. Parking garages on the sitte. And there's shopping nearby.

Just a thought.

[mead]

Roseba,

I don't understand what your hangup is with outer borough neighborhoods. In my neighborhood 1brs are going for $900-$1200 and 3br are around $1,500. You can purchase a 1br co-op for around $150k. Within a 5 minute walking distance from where I live there are 2 pizza places, 1 chinese place, fish & chips/hamburger shop, 8 Irish bars/pubs (2 with real restaurants serving Irish & American food), a C-town grocery store, a real butcher that also sells hot food, a Deli, 3 convenience stores, a bakery, a barber and a couple of hair salons and nail places, a pharmacy, and a bunch of other stuff.

I never use my car if I need to get something in the neighborhood, walking just makes more sense.

Yeah its not Manhattan, but its a decent enough place to live. I'd much rather live here than out in the suburbs. Where's the fun in that. You'll have a yard with some trees out back but you won't have anything that you can walk to. You could live out in the suburbs for a decade and not even really know any of your neighbors. Whats the point in living in some phony suburb without any sense of community?

If you want to live the Manhattan lifestyle and all that entails then you're going to have to shell out the cash for that. Thats why the rents are $2,000 & up.

There are plenty of other nice neighborhoods that are completley liveable in the outer boroughs. If you don't like your current neighborhood why not just move to somewhere that fits you better?

[scatman]

Roseba,

I'm sure you know about the City of New York around the early 90's. You know that there was a recession back then, and prices for homes and apartments dropped! If there was a time to get into homes or apartments, in great locations, it was then, After that, the gates started to lock!

But too many people, myself included, didn't want to pull the trigger at that time because the situation wasn't perfect enough. The neighborhood was too bad, the price still wasn't right, the apartment wasn't right! Many people had the resources, but were looking for perfection. And now, much of the New York market is locked up, with prices unreachable. Because of my fears, I ended up buying property in the Bronx, while I should've/could've had property in my home borough (Brooklyn). I blame no one buy myself for the fears and lack of foresight.

Just remember, you can't go wrong with real estate in this city. I know you want the spacious home, but you know what? Use the smaller property as a stepping stone to achieve that! That's my plan. My little 1BR in the Bronx is already appreciating. Oh, yeah, speaking of that, I left the most trendy neighborhood in New York to go to the Bronx. I took a chance and am now, thankfully, reaping the benefits.

Take the words of Tiki Barber: "Opportunities are seldom perfect. But if you're not ready for them, they may not come again".

[Elvira Black]

Scatman, you hit the nail on the head. But Roseba is too angry and bitter to even read my posts accurately. I never said I lived in Parkchester, for example. I moved from the Upper East Side (rental) to Lower East Side (coop) to Bronx (coop).

I am amazed that some people who have lived here all their lives are in such a time warp about housing. Have they been asleep for the past several decades? Have they never visited areas outside their own? How can someone who has lived here all their lives actually say that the other four boroughs are the hinterlands, with no culture, no amenities within walking distance, etc?

But what she mentioned is telling. No good wine stores. Not enough "good" restaurants. No record stores (hey, guess what...Tower records went out of biz--many people buy their music online now). No bookstores. And...gasp...the subway doesn't run regularly enough on weekends!

In other words, the yuppie mindset of entitlement. Someone on a tight budget cannot afford to go out to restaurants all the time, buy tons of records and books, buy in gourmet stores, etc. esp. if they want to save up for something better for themself and their child. And the subway to Manhattan is always there, and if they work there they can buy what they like there. Even someone with cheap housing in Manhattan will likely spend way more in groceries and other goods and services than they would in the boroughs.

This blind insistence on "warning" newcomers borders on the trollish.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by roseba

**Fact is, the majority of home-owners in the boroughs cannot afford to buy their own home if they had to do it all over.

The fact is, they don't have to worry about that problem!

[Guywithacause]

Hello all...I am back from vacation and I see that Roseba is still insisting on the beverly hills lifestyle on a "good times" budget. Clearly the lifestyle of NYC is not for her, and nothing we shall say will change her mind. Those that are not willing to sacrifice to live in the city should move on to places that are better suited to them , whether it be the suburbs, exurbs, or a different city altogether...and that's okay. There is a whole world out there....at least that's what I am told!

The city was/is/never has been attractive to the millions of people that have/continue to swarm in because it was affordable, clean, suburban, spacious, or idyllic. They don't come here to live in estates (at least not 99.99% of them), or farm, or for peace and quiet. They have/continue to come because it is a place of opportunity, vibrancy, excellent transportation, 24 hour activity, and the sheer diversity of everything. As the city continues to draw people nationally and internationally, prices continue to escalate, and those that could afford a single family home 7 years ago can now only afford apartments. Those that could afford to live in Harlem 5 years ago, now go to the boroughs. That is the concept of supply and demand/appreciation, and those that feel that they should (entitled) to live the lifestyle that best suits them at the prices that they want to pay are not accustomed to living in the city (let alone the US).

I cannot afford to pay $2,500 for a studio in Chelsea therefore I do not live there, I live in Mott Haven, somewhere that I can afford to live. I do not whine/complain/or throw a tantrum because I do not have a Garden of Eden, 3 Starbucks, Sherry-Lehman Wines, or 5 star restaurants on every corner because my neighborhood does not support those kinds of establishments. However, because it is worth it to me to live in the city, with easy access to all of those establishments, access to the high paying/diversity of jobs, diversity of people/food, 24 hour lifestyle, and mixing with the tycoons and international community, I enjoy where I live. It is affordable and worth it to me.

For many it is not worth it, as the endless stretch of suburbs has proven..and that's okay. But why complain/whine/bash the city and outerboroughs in particular just because you cannot have what you want at the price that you deem fair? If it is that big of a problem and not worth the sacrifice, this may not be the city for you..and that's okay too.