Ever notice that New York City's Firefighters are mostly Irish? (Gerry: rent, jobs)

[Dingler]

In a City that is now mostly immigrants, I get a kick out of the Firefighters in New York City. It seems the majority of them are Irish or Italian, and talk like old fashioned New Yorker's. It seems like few ethnic minorities can get a job as a New York City Fireman. What happened to Diversity or Affirmative Action?

This seems to be also true somewhat in NYC's Police Force. What is up?

[Spyridon]

Somebody was watching Rescue Me last night.

[009]

Originally Posted by Dingler

In a City that is now mostly immigrants, I get a kick out of the Firefighters in New York City. It seems the majority of them are Irish or Italian, and talk like old fashioned New Yorker's. It seems like few ethnic minorities can get a job as a New York City Fireman. What happened to Diversity or Affirmative Action?

This seems to be also true somewhat in NYC's Police Force. What is up?

Those 2 agencies are deep rooted in ethnic tradition, specifically w/ the micks and wops. The 2 departments are heavily Irish and Italian because their forefathers were the major ethnic groups that dominated those two services when they were formed. So, many cops and firemen pushed their sons to take the job, so it isn't odd to see a 2nd or 3rd generation cop or fireman who happens to be of one of those 2 ethnic groups.

The FDNY will never represent the racial demographics of the city, never. It's because of the reason above. As quoted in a newspaper a while ago regarding that issue:

"It's the last great White fraternity in NYC."

[TheSeventhBrady]

NYC firefighters are also overwhelmingly good-looking. I think you have to pass a cuteness test to get in. Totally gorgeous!

[scatman]

There is a term called "Ethnic Succession". It's a phenomena where certain jobs in New York City that were dominated by one ethnic group generations ago are now currently dominated by another ethnic group. Normally, this is based on population change in the city. For example.....

Transit:
Back in the day, Irish
Now, Black and Latino

Police
Back in the day, Irish and Italian
Now, still Irish and Italian, but increasing Black, Latino and Immigrant pops

Hospital workers (Local 1199)
Back in the day, Jewish
Now, mostly Caribbean

I was in a class of Professor Doug Muzzio of Baruch, who explained the firefighter phenomena. His explanation was that the Irish sons of firefighters have a heads up in the game. Much of NYFD are second, third, sometimes fourth generation firefighters. Because of that, the sons can pass the exam easily (physically, written, etc), due to Pops and Grandpops knowing what's on the exam and knowing how to take it. Someone from another group, i.e. first generation African-American, may not have anyone to give him/her a heads up on the test, therefore, it's harder for them to get in!

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by Dingler

In a City that is now mostly immigrants, I get a kick out of the Firefighters in New York City. It seems the majority of them are Irish or Italian, and talk like old fashioned New Yorker's. It seems like few ethnic minorities can get a job as a New York City Fireman. What happened to Diversity or Affirmative Action?

This seems to be also true somewhat in NYC's Police Force. What is up?

There is a lot of "good old boy," stuff and nepotism that has gone on for years in the NYFD. It's slowly getting better. I was offended as were many of my peers by the recent lowering of the standards to "attract," non-whites and females. And even then you got the impression the NYFD wasn't fully behind lowering the standards and were just doing so because the city pressured them into it.

I think it has a lot more to do with an image problem. Amongst many "minorities" (I hate using that word), the NYFD has somewhat of a negative image and is perceived as racist and not welcoming of people that aren't White. Now this perception might not be totally warranted and it might be overblown but it is there. As such I think a lot more could have been accomplished by just making a little more of an effort to clean up that perception, maybe an advertising campaign featuring minority firefighters, or more aggressive recruitment in minority neighborhoods instead of lowering the standards. There are plenty of qualified minorities under the old standards, they are just afraid of not being treated fairly and welcomed. Afterall who wants to work somewhere where you think your going to be discriminated against.

[Viralmd]

Originally Posted by 009

Those 2 agencies are deep rooted in ethnic tradition, specifically w/ the micks and wops.

This is incredibly offensive.

[saturnfan]

Sanitation's traditionally Italian.

[mead]

Hey he could of just called them all a bunch of stupid Donkeys. That would have been more offensive.

Why are there so many Mic Firefighters and Police? It fits a good niche in my mind. Most of the Irish have already left the city because they've moved up the economic ladder and now have comfortable white collar jobs and live out in the suburbs. The remaining Irish in the city are mostly blue collar and jobs like police and firefighters work well for them because the job is very respectable, the pay is pretty good (well not when you first sign up, but eventually), and because its a traditional job for Irish people. Irish people are also heavily in the construction business for the same reasons. Lots of Irish used to be involved with running the trains and buses (I have several generations of transit workers in my family), but this isn't as commonplace today.

Irish have dominated the police force in the city since they first arrived in America 150 years ago. So they'll probably continue to make up a disproportionate ammount of Police and Firefighters even though they only make up 5% of the city's population.

Originally Posted by Viralmd

This is incredibly offensive.

[Moth]

Its an ethnic niche. Ever notice most cabbies and newspaper stand owners are of South Asian descent?

Coming to New York from DC, I found it ironic as most of the cops, firefighters and sanitation workers are black down here. Of course, at the end of the day, I do not really care who is putting out a fire or picking up the garbage.

Now, with the NYPD, they could use more Blacks and Latinos unless Gerry O'Hanlon is convincing enough to do undercover in Harlem. The NYPD examination is a joke. I took it on a whim and scored a 96/100. They give you 3 hours, but I was done in 1 and change. I am sure the academy is a bit more demanding.

Anyway, all my Irish friends in New York had fathers who encouraged them to become cops. Is it the same in the African-American community? Probably not but I have no specific or antedotal information. Maybe its ingrained in one culture and not the other.