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Old 10-20-2011, 10:51 AM
 
525 posts, read 766,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsoclutch View Post
baggy pants....lol. Are you sure you even live in new york?
no I do not live in ny nor will I ever live in New York.

 
Old 10-20-2011, 10:58 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,654,219 times
Reputation: 1084
Quote:
Originally Posted by heetseeker View Post
yeaaaa right- give me a break man. The Mexicans don't seem to be having a problem overcoming these same issues and they can't even speak english.
These are pretty specific to black Americans. Mexicans' primary issue is immigration. They live in poverty in the U.S. because they cannot get legal employment or services. Let's keep our facts straight here.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:00 AM
 
525 posts, read 766,707 times
Reputation: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
And who created this hood ay? Magic? People came together and said "Let's all be poor, broke, and criminals, and exclude ourselves from society and make up our own rules....fun!"

When you are not allowed to be anything besides a basketball player, maybe then you will know why so many dream about it.
The reason they dream about it ,my friend,is because their parent and friends tell them its the only way to be successful in our country. Don't work hard and learn a trade don't go to school and get good grades, don't go to community college, just put on these Jordans and act like a basketball player then on day you will be rich. Or go to the studio and rap about killing people and selling drugs then you will be rich. No hard work no daily grind just dumb luck. Look at the black women in this country they are getting good jobs and going to college etc. and climbing out of poverty, come on man quit justifying the people with no character, embrace the beauty that America is , you can do it.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:03 AM
 
525 posts, read 766,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
These are pretty specific to black Americans. Mexicans primary issue is immigration. They live in poverty in the U.S. because they cannot get legal employment or services. Let's keep our facts straight here.
What? obviosly you have never been to calif. where the illegals have all the labor jobs and get free medical care and food stamps and general relief and they also work under the table on top of that . Hey I don't want that for me but I'll take what I can get.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,654,219 times
Reputation: 1084
Quote:
Originally Posted by heetseeker View Post
The reason they dream about it ,my friend,is because their parent and friends tell them its the only way to be successful in our country. Don't work hard and learn a trade don't go to school and get good grades, don't go to community college, just put on these Jordans and act like a basketball player then on day you will be rich. Or go to the studio and rap about killing people and selling drugs then you will be rich. No hard work no daily grind just dumb luck. Look at the black women in this country they are getting good jobs and going to college etc. and climbing out of poverty, come on man quit justifying the people with no character, embrace the beauty that America is , you can do it.
Some, maybe. But casting a wide net over every parent isn't fair or accurate. Again, if you're going to argue this, please stick to the facts.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:08 AM
 
525 posts, read 766,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
Some, maybe. But casting a wide net over every parent isn't fair or accurate. Again, if you're going to argue this, please stick to the facts.
The facts, ms. lady, are I talk to these kids everyday and ask them what they want to do when they grow up 9 out of 10 says football player. The rest say a range of other stuff but the proof is in the pudding.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:14 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,654,219 times
Reputation: 1084
Quote:
Originally Posted by heetseeker View Post
The facts, ms. lady, are I talk to these kids everyday and ask them what they want to do when they grow up 9 out of 10 says football player. The rest say a range of other stuff but the proof is in the pudding.
i talked to hundreds of kids all the time in my work with the nyc middle schools, and that's not what i hear. there are plenty who want to achieve something, as do their parents, but many are uninformed about how to go about it.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:25 AM
 
1,785 posts, read 3,016,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
I acknowledge the problems in the urban black culture, but why don't we discuss WHY!!!!!!! Everyone likes to point fingers and play the blame game, but when we talk about HOW this happened, and WHAT caused it, and WHY they act this way in the first place, it always goes back to "because they are bad/dumb/that's how they are."

You will never solve the problem until you acknowledge what it is. And it isn't a group of people who decide being poor was fun, or having no job was cool, or smoking crack was a part of their culture, or celebrate violence against eachother.

Blacks did not:

choose to be slaves - no they didn't. It was a crime against humanity that should never have happened. We won't bother going into what part other blacks located in Africa at the height of this tragedy played in this - since largely it was made to be profitable to them by Whites. But this ended (other than in Alabama in 1928) in all other US States in late 1865. This cannot continue to be a crutch.

choose to be 3/5ths of a person - I believe you are referring to the issue above.

choose to be uneducated - Well, actually that is not true. By 1918 all states in the US had laws in place requiring children to attend at least elementary school. The thing with education, is that the responsibility to ensure a child is being properly educated beings in the HOME. With the parent. That includes ensuring the child is properly fed and cleaned in the morning (state aid is available in the form of food stamps - not to mention the schools who provide vouchers). It is also the parent's responsibility to ensure that the child is properly prepared for school (i.e. homework assignments completed). It is also the parent's responsibility to spend time with their child to go over their school work, to listen to their concerns about class, to ensure they congratulate the child on good grades, to instill in them the value of a good, solid education. It is also the parent's job to instill discipline in their children. To let them know that their teachers must be respected and that the rules of the school must be adhered to. By doing this, you make a teacher's job far easier and giving them more time to allot individual time to each child. If you want to get into bad schools, a poorly run Education Board, not enough funding for certain schools - then we can also discuss that. But again, that is the PARENT'S job to INSIST that their child is receiving the best education possible.

choose to be criminalized - Well, again, that unfortunately falls on these "role model" gangsta type movies and songs that portray a certain image to the general public. Quite frankly, an ordinary Italian might actually have the same gripe as you on this. Why does everyone always think Mafia when we mention Italians? Maybe the old folklore of Al Capone, the movies of Robert DeNiro, etc.? Look Sobro, I know this is going to **** you off with me, but you know the stats on this as well as I do so let's not even bother going into the racial stats of the US prison population (although if it means anything to you, it's actually the Hispanic prison population that has grown (72% of that population being illegals - but again - another subject). The interesting thing to note, however, is that 94% of murders committed by a black inmate was committed against a black victim (86% of white murder victims were committed by white inmates). So you tell me - what's up with the black on black crime? Why are you killing each other? How are you throwing this on whites? Do you think a Glenn Beck or Sean Hannity will get the message across to black communities better than a Al Sharpton? And tell me - why is he always jumping on his version of race crimes rather than addressing the issue within the African American community? Where is the leadership?

choose to be segregated - Are you going back to the 60's or are you referring to something more recent? If it's the 60's - again - it's time to move on. It was wrong. It was awful. It was criminal. It was degrading. And it's a mark of dark shame on the people who practiced the policy and enforced it. But it's done.

choose to not have a job - I'm sorry - what? Is the giant bubble of unemployment in this nation facing only African-Americans? We're all out of work, my friend, me included. And it's going to go on for awhile. The only thing everyone can to is hustle to get a job - any job. Pride be damned.

choose to not be able to get a loan to buy a home - Uh? That would be discrimination that would not be permitted under law. Either you financially qualify or you don't. It's that simple. If you're out of work, or if you have no savings, or if you don't have the money for the downpayment, or if you have a bad credit history - you're toast. Please don't lump all black people into this. You do a disservice to hard-working people. If you have the money, a good credit history and stable employment - a bank will give you a loan. Period. And if they don't and you think it's because of race, there is a special hotline to call to report it immediately.

choose to have it illegal to go to school with other people - OK - you're back in the 60's again.

choose to make interacial marriage illegal - oh for the love of .... Move on please. Times have changed. It's behind you.

choose separate water fountains - Already addressed above. Wrong. Degrading. Outlawed. Please proceed ahead.

choose to sit on the back of the bus - Same as above.

choose to not vote - are we going back before the annals of time again? This right was written into our Constitution via the 15th Amendment in 1870. And that was only for Black MEN. Now, was this Amendment a little difficult to enforce in the South? Certainly. That's why the Voting Act of 1965 was passed. And by the way, if you want to be pissed off about this, then I have MORE of a right than you do. Women in this country did not get the vote until the 19th Amendment was passed in 1920. And thus, I've never been caught up on my anger of women being lesser citizens in terms of voting rights. I've moved on.

and on and on....

All of those things were thrust on them, and that dysfunctional culture was passed on generation to generation, destroying families, no wealth generation, no education, nobody to depend on, and ultimately caused what you see today (and have been seeing for generations). But none of that is supposed to matter because "it's all in the past" right? Yesterday has nothing to do with today right?

These are not excuses, this is the reality that we live in. You can choose to play the blame game, and blame blacks for wearing baggy pants and that's why they are poor...but you would be ignoring 500 years of the obvious causes. And somehow, everything ends up being Blacks' fault, crime, their own poverty, lack of education, lack of resources...and of course, whites are the true victims. Laughable.
Come on Sobro - you really need to stop reaching into the distant past to justify an issue. It's just not valid anymore. I've made notes on some of your points above. While what was done in the past was wrong (as I've noted above). Whites are not victims. Actually, we never claim to be. But please don't sit here and tell me that African Americans have played NO part in this victimization. And please stop speaking like all Blacks are victims. That is simply not true and an absolute slap in the face to the MULTIPLE success stories throughout American history.

Honestly - I've always enjoyed your posts. You know history very well. And in knowing that history you have got to concede that the Irish were treated appalling in the 1800's. What was done to Japanese-Americans during WWII in this country was absolutely criminal. The treatment of Chinese workers on the railways back in the 1800's was one of the cruelest things I've ever read. And seriously - and this is coming from a Catholic - you have GOT to admit that the Jewish people as a race have been the most victimized people on the face of this planet for centuries. Awful things have happened in the past. But you can't hold on to that and use it as a crutch. You seriously have got to let go it and face what the problems are NOW and how they can best be resolved. Stop looking to assign blame. Accept the situation as it is currently, shoulder the responsibility of fixing it and making sure the next generation does better.

And I apologize for getting on my high horse. Like I said, I really do enjoy your posts and was really surprised at this one from you. Please Sobro, don't leave me sitting here having more faith in the abilities of the African American people to succeed than you do. Because right now, that's how it feels to me. And I AM sorry if I pissed you off. I just expect more from you. I know - a complete stranger to you - but your posts have power.

Last edited by cokatie; 10-20-2011 at 11:36 AM..
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:35 AM
 
8,750 posts, read 16,026,436 times
Reputation: 4168
You know me...always harping on the distant past:

Michael Daragjati, cop accused of racism-fueled false arrest, case prompts probe of NYPD policy

"A judge this week slammed Daragjati as "a blatant racist" after he was busted for violating a man's civil rights by fabricating charges against him.

"I fried another n-----," Daragjati crowed last April, according to a transcript of a phone conversation the feds intercepted while he was under investigation for insurance fraud.

Adams, a retired NYPD captain, said thousands of minorities have been swept into the criminal justice system, without justification, to meet illegal quotas.

Those stopped, he said, later find it difficult to get jobs or get accepted into college.

"We are criminalizing thousands of young people in New York City," Adams said. "What is it going to take before we realize this is a citywide problem?"



But according to cokatie, this never happens anymore, and has nothing to do with the criminalization of entire groups of people. Nope...they all get arrested because they deserve it! I have lots of faith in Blacks and they have lots of faith in eachother, but clearly the problems are those, like the Police Force (or employers, or businesses, etc), who don't, and continue to make sure Blacks don't prosper. Welcome to 1797...err...2011.

I will agree with you though, that Jews are by far the most victimized people in the world, for thousands of years scapegoated for everything.
 
Old 10-20-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,296 posts, read 4,654,219 times
Reputation: 1084
black/African Americans are very divided across socio-economic status, education, and we have little economic power in large blocks. to change this we have to focus on education, start businesses and stop consuming. we need to acknowledge the past but move on. when racism occurs in the present day (yes, it still does) we have to stand up against it instead of feeling frustrated and giving up. this is the battle i wage every day. not expecting anyone else to carry it for me.
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