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Old 10-20-2011, 02:40 AM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,899 posts, read 8,308,444 times
Reputation: 2021

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
You should do a little research before you state a truly misinformed opinion.
YOU should delve deeper into reality, look behind things, instead of simply looking at the surface. There are reasons why things work in one place, but do not in others. America/NYC is NOT Europe.

Quality of life is a relative quotient. Most of what you desire will not improve my quality of life, simply because I live a different lifestyle than you. You presume, that we all live a similar lifestyle which includes similar values. The reality is we do not.

Quote:
You do not need a car to enjoy an area outside mass transit access. Ever heard of zip car or even borrowing a friends? Most New Yorkers do not even own a car, and most New Yorkers rarely leave the city.
Is that something to be proud of? NYers that don't leave the city. Somehow, I don't think these folks are the market for bike sharing.

It's funny, how come everybody I know owns a car? Who is driving and parking all those cars you see EVERYWHERE? The notion among some that the majority of NYers don't have cars (and live in apartments) is false!

You people and your tenanment/transit/transplant/biking fantasies. There are people who don't own because they can't afford a car in NYC, which is a HUGE percentage. The poverty rate is 20%!!! Include another 10 to 20% not in poverty, yet still cannot afford a car, and at least 1/3 of NYers are carless NOT by choice.

The percentage of NYers w/o an automobile is 55.7%.

So, excluding those in poverty, the MAJORITY of NYers own vehicles!!! Specifically, the majority who can afford a vehicle, have a vehicle. Note, the cost of owning a vehicle in NYC goes significantly beyond the monthly payment.

You folks with your fantasies and warped perceptions of life in NYC truly need to STOP imposing your narrow experiences and viewpoints onto the whole of the city, there is a host who live and have lived NYC lives far different than your own.

NYers are not some separate breed from the rest of America, we are as car minded as anyone else, but difficulties and cost of life in the city compels many to forego a vehicle. This is not because of some germaine obsession or appreciation of public transport, but simply a matter of convenience and cost. Lower the cost and remove the inconvenience and just like the rest of America, EVERYONE will have a car, except for nutjobs!
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:48 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,632,390 times
Reputation: 4504
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
NYC's "Euro-fixation" is great! There is no city in the United States like New York City. We must look to our neighbors across the Atlantic for true innovation. Many European cities have similar cultural, structural, infrastructural, social similarities. More so then other parts of the world.

-Bike share is a great thing coming. I have high hopes for the initial roll out. Northern Brooklyn and Manhattan South. I see success there. My fear is the rest of the city. I think a lot of people will be too conservative in the outer boroughs initially. Bike share will probably be the most beneficial in areas like the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens. Areas that lack cross-town subway access, even even better for areas in fringes that lack a subway station within reasonable walking distance. We can thank Copenhagen, Denmark and other successful system across Europe. It's been proven to work in the USA, just look at D.C.

-Pedestrian Squares, love em. They are what NYC's has needed for some time. I am just disappointed with the roll out time. Times Square has already proven successful, lets see more of these across the city. The Times Square redesign will ensure this will be a "permanent" feature in that community.

Something I would really like to see in NYC are Street-Car systems. They are being rebuilt across the country. Some areas could really use them.
Northeastern Megapolis statistics

1990 Population : 43 Million
2000 Population : 49 Million
2010 Population : 53 Million
2025 Population : 58 Million
2040 Population : 80 Million
2050 Population : 85 Million


2010 Transit Daily Usage : 20.4 Million
2020 Transit Daily Usage : 35 Million
2050 Transit Usage : 50 Million


NYC will never get Streetcars back , however a Light Rail network connecting New Jersey with Staten Island is in the works. Streetcars are being built /studied and proposed in the Following Northeastern Megapolis cities...by 2050 There is a small plan to build a starter line and expanded system in Brooklyn although it appears to be on hold.

Philadelphia (The Full build plans would make it Largest System in North America @ 109 miles)
Baltimore
Alexandria
Portsmouth
Hampton
Richmond
Portland
Worcester
Manchester
Springfield
Washington DC
Tyson's Corner
New Haven
Bridgeport
Stamford
Wilmington
Norwalk
Nashua
Lowell
Providence
Jersey City
Lancaster
Harrisburg
Harrison,NJ
Hyde Park



Light Rail will serve these small - Meduim cities in the NE Megapolis...by 2050

Baltimore (East - West)
Bethesda
Silver Spring
Dundalk
Annapolis
Philadelphia
Essex
Elizabeth
Glassboro
Millville
West Trenton
Paterson
Hackensack
Englewood
Towson
New Brunswick
East Orange
Virginia Beach
Chesapeake
Hampton
Newport News
Somerville
Cambridge
Everett
Medford
Chelsea
Providence
Fall River
Hartford


Bus Rapid Transit will serve these towns & cities by 2050...

Boston (Full build plans)
Hartford
New Haven
White Plains
Irvington,NJ
Newark
East Orange
Bloomfield
Elizabeth
Philadelphia
Springfield
Portsmouth
Suffolk
Washington DC
Alexandria
Richmond
Arlington
Gaithersburg
Trenton
Providence
Pawtucket
West Harford
New Britain
Manchester,CT
East Hartford
Newington
New Brunswick


Subways will serve these cities or be expanded in these cities by 2050

New York City (Full SAS and 7 line extension)
Newark (EWR PATH)
Philadelphia (Roosevelt Subway extension)
Washington DC (Silver line)
Tyson's Corner (Silver line)
Lynn,MA (Blue line)
Revere,MA (Blue line)
Baltimore (Green line)


New Commuter Rail lines will serve these towns & cities by 2050

Teaneck
North Bergen
Ridgefield Park
Nyack
Haverstraw
Newburgh
Kingston
White Plains (East - West)
East White Plains
Parkchester
Hunts Point
Co-Op City
North Paterson
Ocean City,MD
Dover,DE
Salisbury
West Chester
Reading
Coatesville
Allentown
York
Gettysburg
Phoenixville
Easton
Philpsburg
Bethlehem
West Trenton
Toms River
Freehold
Sayerville
Cape May
Ocean City,NJ
Hartford
Brattleboro
Nashua
Manchester
Portsmouth
Springfield
Pawtucket
Fall River
Newport
New Bedford
Woonsocket
Concord
Torrington
Hagerstorm
Front Royal
LA Plata
Westminster
Culpepper
Williamsburg
Hampton
Newport News
Suffolk
Norfolk
Chesapeake
East Stroudsburg
North Danbury
Rochester,NH
Barnstable
Middletown,CT

New Higher Speed Intercity & High Speed Rail lines will service these cities by 2050 (120-220mph)

Wilmington
Center City Philadelphia
Charles Market Baltimore
Boston
Hartford
Springfield
New Haven
White Plains
Newark
New York Penn and Grand Central Station
Norfolk
Richmond
Allentown
Scranton
Binghamton
Albany
Harrisburg
Atlantic City
Danbury
Woonsocket
Providence
Worcester
Manchester,NH
Concord
Brunswick,ME
Bangor,ME
New Rochelle
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,141 posts, read 2,784,344 times
Reputation: 788
Why do we wanna be like Europe so bad? It's pathetic. This is America not the EU. Europeans build what they build because they don't have a choice due to land space and costs. If France and Germany were as big as Canada, Australia, and the USA then they'd be singing a different tune. Hell I think California is bigger than most countries in Europe.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,427,088 times
Reputation: 47455
NYC has it right. they remember where they came from. not from africa not from asia not from mexico.
remembering that--- we will continue have a good model. diversity is fine it enriches us, but dont forget by which door you entered.
if mexico was groovy you would still be there.
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Old 10-20-2011, 12:35 PM
 
8,750 posts, read 15,558,155 times
Reputation: 4168
Mayor we don't want to be like Europe so bad, but clearly NYC was built by the Dutch and subsequent Europeans using the European model. So just accept it. And as a result, many of the successful initiatives and QOL improvements which work in Europe also work here, not all, but many.

However, we look at all countries and take what works. It isn't about being like Europe, it's about taking what works in other places and adapting it here. It just so happens that we are set-up so much like Europe that things that work there oftentimes work here too.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:22 PM
 
1,682 posts, read 2,627,652 times
Reputation: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
YOU should delve deeper into reality, look behind things, instead of simply looking at the surface. There are reasons why things work in one place, but do not in others. America/NYC is NOT Europe.

Quality of life is a relative quotient. Most of what you desire will not improve my quality of life, simply because I live a different lifestyle than you. You presume, that we all live a similar lifestyle which includes similar values. The reality is we do not.
Of course the USA is not Europe. However the northeast (Boston-D.C. corridor) better relates in density to Europe compared to the rest of the United States. NYC has more in common with London infrastructurally and other major European cities then any major city in the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Is that something to be proud of? NYers that don't leave the city. Somehow, I don't think these folks are the market for bike sharing.

It's funny, how come everybody I know owns a car? Who is driving and parking all those cars you see EVERYWHERE? The notion among some that the majority of NYers don't have cars (and live in apartments) is false!

You people and your tenanment/transit/transplant/biking fantasies. There are people who don't own because they can't afford a car in NYC, which is a HUGE percentage. The poverty rate is 20%!!! Include another 10 to 20% not in poverty, yet still cannot afford a car, and at least 1/3 of NYers are carless NOT by choice.

The percentage of NYers w/o an automobile is 55.7%.

So, excluding those in poverty, the MAJORITY of NYers own vehicles!!! Specifically, the majority who can afford a vehicle, have a vehicle. Note, the cost of owning a vehicle in NYC goes significantly beyond the monthly payment.

You folks with your fantasies and warped perceptions of life in NYC truly need to STOP imposing your narrow experiences and viewpoints onto the whole of the city, there is a host who live and have lived NYC lives far different than your own.

NYers are not some separate breed from the rest of America, we are as car minded as anyone else, but difficulties and cost of life in the city compels many to forego a vehicle. This is not because of some germaine obsession or appreciation of public transport, but simply a matter of convenience and cost. Lower the cost and remove the inconvenience and just like the rest of America, EVERYONE will have a car, except for nutjobs!
You are wrong.

Most New Yorkers DO NOT own automobiles. Even less among those that do use them to commute.

Not all New Yorkers who do not own a car, want a car. NYC is a walkable city built around mass transit. A car DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. Traffic, a lack of parking, and a lack of direct routes (via controlled-access roadways) make driving undesirable.

Again, most New Yorkers do not leave the city on a regular basis, the city offers all the necessary amenities.

Bike share would be very beneficial to the population considering a significant percentage of New Yorkers only commute a "bikeable" distance around the city on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayorofnyc View Post
Why do we wanna be like Europe so bad? It's pathetic. This is America not the EU. Europeans build what they build because they don't have a choice due to land space and costs. If France and Germany were as big as Canada, Australia, and the USA then they'd be singing a different tune. Hell I think California is bigger than most countries in Europe.
It's not about being European. It's about borrowing what works infrastructurally and adapting it for our usage.

As for land usage. Dense urban construction is far more economically sound then urban sprawl. Europe, although older, was constructed more efficiently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
NYC has it right. they remember where they came from. not from africa not from asia not from mexico.
remembering that--- we will continue have a good model. diversity is fine it enriches us, but dont forget by which door you entered.
if mexico was groovy you would still be there.
Huh? NYC borrows plenty of concepts from the rest of the world. We did not invent rapid transit nor the road. Globalization is a wonderful thing. An exchange of ideas will only benefit us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Mayor we don't want to be like Europe so bad, but clearly NYC was built by the Dutch and subsequent Europeans using the European model. So just accept it. And as a result, many of the successful initiatives and QOL improvements which work in Europe also work here, not all, but many.

However, we look at all countries and take what works. It isn't about being like Europe, it's about taking what works in other places and adapting it here. It just so happens that we are set-up so much like Europe that things that work there oftentimes work here too.
I don't understand how they cannot see the benefits?
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:55 AM
 
9,316 posts, read 13,856,052 times
Reputation: 9365
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
As for land usage. Dense urban construction is far more economically sound then urban sprawl.
An article of faith belied by the enormous costs of NYC. If dense urban construction is so much more economically sound, why does it cost so much?
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:10 AM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,284,010 times
Reputation: 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
An article of faith belied by the enormous costs of NYC. If dense urban construction is so much more economically sound, why does it cost so much?
NYKiddo has things a bit backwards.

European cities are't the way they are because Europeans want it that way. Their geography forced them to adapt to their circumstances.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:21 AM
 
288 posts, read 487,162 times
Reputation: 296
JColtrane, I pray at your altar of wisdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post

The percentage of NYers w/o an automobile is 55.7%.
And we all know what that means:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
the MAJORITY of NYers own vehicles!!!
Thanks for explaining to us once again what reality looks like. Because clearly simple mathematical rules can't account for it.
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:25 AM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,284,010 times
Reputation: 2834
I'm one of those NY'ers who would love to have a car but do not because it's simply not the rational thing to do (the insurance more so than the car). For myself, owning a car at this point would be financially unsound even though I could technically afford it.
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