U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-22-2011, 09:46 AM
 
3,332 posts, read 3,306,239 times
Reputation: 2839

Advertisements

free market.

I knew it was bad but I didn't realize just how extensive it was.

Quote:
In contrast to the rest of the country, most New Yorkers do not own the homes
in which they live. According to the 2008 Housing and Vacancy Survey
(HVS),
1
rental units comprised 67.2% of New York City’s available housing
stock in 2008, twice as many rental units as the nation as a whole.
2
New
York City in 2008 had a total of 3,328,395 housing units, the largest housing
stock since the first HVS was conducted in 1965. New York City’s housing
is dominated by the size of its rental housing stock and unlike most cities, the
bulk of rental units are rent regulated. Of the 2,144,452 occupied and vacant
rental units reported in the most recent HVS, more than a third (36.0%) were
unregulated, or “free market.” The majority were either pre-war (pre-47) rent
stabilized (33.5%) or post-war (post-46) rent stabilized (14.3%), and the rest
were rent controlled (1.9%) or part of various other
3
types of regulated
apartment programs (14.4%).
(See pie chart on following page)
The HVS also indicated that New York City’s housing market remains
tight, finding a citywide vacancy rate of 2.91% in 2008, below the 5%
threshold required for rent regulation to continue under State law. Brooklyn
had the lowest vacancy rate in the city, at 2.35%, while Queens had the
highest, 3.32%. Of the other boroughs, Manhattan’s vacancy rate was
2.76%, the Bronx’s was 3.12%, and the small sample size of vacant
apartments in Staten Island made calculation of a vacancy rate in that
borough too inaccurate to report.
4
Vacancy rates also vary by rent regulation status. The tightest market was
found among post-war stabilized units, with a vacancy rate of 1.67% in 2008.Pre-war stabilized units also maintained a low vacancy
rate, at 2.36%, while private, non-regulated units were
vacant at a 4.75% rate.
http://www.housingnyc.com/downloads/...orts/10HSR.pdf

It should be obvious why free market rents are out of control across NYC.

Last edited by wawaweewa; 10-22-2011 at 09:58 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-22-2011, 10:08 AM
 
65,077 posts, read 66,574,854 times
Reputation: 43455
there will be loads more coming off stabilization that will be free market over the next few years.

many many apartments that are stabilized are really co-ops with the origonal tenants in them like ours. as these tenants die,move or accept buy outs these apartments are no longer stabilized.

the co-op craze created a statistic of an apartment being rent regulated but the reality is its only until the origonal tenant or their successors move out.

with the baby boomers who mostly hold these older apartments aging they are freeing up now.

after decades of no one going anywhere we had a wave of tenents free up apartments the last few years as they reached the age they want to leave ny.

Last edited by mathjak107; 10-22-2011 at 10:38 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2011, 10:13 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 3,536,336 times
Reputation: 1906
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
free market.

I knew it was bad but I didn't realize just how extensive it was.



http://www.housingnyc.com/downloads/...orts/10HSR.pdf

It should be obvious why free market rents are out of control across NYC.
Another reason why Rent Stabilization/Rent Control should be abolished or at least gradually phased out. Didn't realize the percentages of RS/RC apts were that high. I just I live long enough to see rent regulations in NYC gone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
20,254 posts, read 26,621,926 times
Reputation: 9063
Would the vast number of rental and rent-regulated apartments be skewed by the number of NYCHA units?


Quote:
Vacancy rates also vary by rent regulation status. The tightest market was
found among post-war stabilized units, with a vacancy rate of 1.67% in 2008.Pre-war stabilized units also maintained a low vacancy
rate, at 2.36%, while private, non-regulated units were
vacant at a 4.75% rate.
Those vacancy figures seem to fly in the face of others I've seen showing much lower vacancy rates??? HPD shows vacancies mush closer to 2% for the period 1995-2005 (last I could find.) Crain's shows Manhattan under 1% (2011) and the City at around 3%.

Quote:
Current WSJ numbers:
Even with the addition of over 7,000 residential units from developers throughout New York City, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that vacancy rates fell from last quarter and rents continue to rise. In broad terms the average rent in NYC is within reach of $2,800 and vacancy for all boroughs is just above 3%.
As noted in many posts, averages and trends are generally good when confined to areas as small as NYC, but due to the huge changes from borough to borough it is still not the best picture you can get. For instance, in Manhattan, the November report put vacancy rate at 1.29% (0.63%-1.78% by neighborhood) and average rents were around $3,000. We are still waiting for the Q4 2010 results for a full picture of the current NYC/Manhattan markets.

Last edited by Kefir King; 10-23-2011 at 09:23 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
8,396 posts, read 19,715,449 times
Reputation: 6223
Something everyone seems to forget :

There is a very large number of officially "rent stabilized" apartments( would love to know the number) that are actually renting at market rates that are well below the maximum allowed by law.In fact,most people I know who live in stabilized apartments have rents below what their landlords could legally charge because the market will not allow the landlords to get the legal maximum base rent.

In such cases the leases usually stipulate 2 rents,the maximum base rent and the so called "preferential( lower) rent", which is what the tenants actually pay because of market conditions.

This situation may not be so widespread in Manhattan but it is very common in other boroughs.This phenomenon is what is allowing landlords to raise rents rapidly (upon renewal or vacancy) during the current rent squeeze.They can raise rents more than the % set by the guidelines board because the units haven't yet reached the maximums allowed.

End result is that there are lots of apartments in the city that are not officially "free market" but are in fact "free market."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 09:43 AM
 
65,077 posts, read 66,574,854 times
Reputation: 43455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Would the vast number of rental and rent-regulated apartments be skewed by the number of NYCHA units?




Those vacancy figures seem to fly in the face of others I've seen showing much lower vacancy rates??? HPD shows vacancies mush closer to 2% for the period 1995-2005 (last I could find.) Crain's shows Manhattan under 1% (2011) and the City at around 3%.
i would venture to say most of the true stabilized rentals are owned by the city. most landlords saw the hand writting on the wall decades ago and went co-op . they are more temporary stabilized units.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
1,746 posts, read 3,438,437 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there will be loads more coming off stabilization that will be free market over the next few years.

many many apartments that are stabilized are really co-ops with the origonal tenants in them like ours. as these tenants die,move or accept buy outs these apartments are no longer stabilized.

the co-op craze created a statistic of an apartment being rent regulated but the reality is its only until the origonal tenant or their successors move out.

with the baby boomers who mostly hold these older apartments aging they are freeing up now.

after decades of no one going anywhere we had a wave of tenents free up apartments the last few years as they reached the age they want to leave ny.
Does the study consider co-ops "rentals"? I thought a tenant in a co-op was an "owner"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 10:16 AM
 
65,077 posts, read 66,574,854 times
Reputation: 43455
co-op rentals if not owner occupied and if they contain the origonal tenant are still stabilized under most plans
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
1,746 posts, read 3,438,437 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
co-op rentals if not owner occupied and if they contain the origonal tenant are still stabilized under most plans
So, if the co-op apartment is inhabited by the original owner then its not considered a rental. I guess that makes sense, I just didn't realize the huge co-op apartment stock here are leased by the individual owners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-23-2011, 11:33 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,731 posts, read 2,882,160 times
Reputation: 4692
I understand the argument against rent control/stabilization and how it's preventing rents from being at free market rates but why is there an automatic assumption that once rent control goes away, rents will drop? The rents are high in NYC because of demand. Are we saying once rent control goes away, the old/poor people that live there will die/become homeless and will now free up a bunch of inventory and allow supply to match the demand?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top