Anyone miss the old NYC ? (New York, York: estate, housing, rent)

[Hustla718]

Originally Posted by Guywithacause

Things were relatively cheaper back then, however it was cheaper because the housing stock was in such poor condition, numerous neighborhoods and entire swaths of the city were completely unlivable and abandoned, and crime over ran the city in ways that recent arrivals to this city may not be able to comprehend.

As a result of the improvement that has taken place in Manhattan over the last 10 years, and in the outer boroughs over the last 5 years, the cost of living has increased dramatically as it is a far more attractive place to live for those in this country, as well as internationally. Although crime exists, moreso in some neighborhoods than others, it is still exponentially better than it was, and has stabilized to a level that allows for people to move freely, and live in formerly questionable areas.

The housing stock today is still terrible in low income areas. You can have horrible occupied buildings. Even in wealthy areas there are run down buildings, in the ghetto, forget it. There are only less completely abandoned buildings due to a lack of affordable housing. So more poor are being stuffed into tenements and new housing projects. Basically, if it wasn't for the demand for low income housing, fueled by immigration, these areas would still be full of shells.

As for Manhattan. There used to be SRO's, welfare motels, ect around Times Square. That's all gone now. Again, poverty shifted into others areas of the city.

And I wouldn't say crime is any better then it was for everyone in the city. Yes more poverty has been shifted to certain hoods. Yes there is less killing then there was during the crack era. This is due to plenty of factors. From education on the drug, in school, the media and personal experiance which lessened the demand, and as a result reduced killing to the feds shutting down Pablo Escobar. Also advances in medicine. However things like beat downs, domestic violence, street disputes. Still a problem as bad as it has always been.

[vitalove]

I miss the old New York. No, it wasn't perfect, hardly clean, segregated and crime and drug ridden. But it was real. It was eclectic, artistic, funky, creative and unique.

Today's New York. I hardly recognize some places anymore and it sure feels terribly weird. We pretend that segregation doesn't exist here anymore when in reality there's an economic segregation movement going on. All the mom and pop stores and funky boutiques are forced to close and are being replaced by the standard yuppy chain stores. Every vacant lot (some community gardens), every 2 and 3 story building is being built on to the point where little green space other than the few local parks will exist. And it will only get worse.

So yes, I miss the old New York. In fact I was watching an old movie the other day that showed Harlem back in '83, '84 and my, how things have changed, and not exactly for the good.

[Guywithacause]

Crime has improved dramatically, and the city is the most liveable is has ever been. I am glad to see the dramtic improvements in the outerboroughs , as well as the influx of new residents that is spurring further growth into once completely segregated and abandoned communities. The city has come a long way, it still has much work to do, however I look forward to the next 5 -10 years, as those changes will be the most telling for the future of the city.

[TheSeventhBrady]

Manhattan was never all that affordable, even 25 years ago. I couldn't have afforded to move there at any stage of my life.

Everything is relative, indeed.

[Concept]

it wasnt 'relatively' cheaper. it was downright cheaper. c'mon are u kidding...u could live on the west side, yorkville, downtown, etc, at a fraction of the price. u had working/middle class folks all over manhattan. they are no where to be found now. there is easily way more segragation in manhattan now...either ur living large or very poor.

[briarwood]

Originally Posted by vitalove

I miss the old New York. No, it wasn't perfect, hardly clean, segregated and crime and drug ridden. But it was real. It was eclectic, artistic, funky, creative and unique.

Today's New York. I hardly recognize some places anymore and it sure feels terribly weird. We pretend that segregation doesn't exist here anymore when in reality there's an economic segregation movement going on. All the mom and pop stores and funky boutiques are forced to close and are being replaced by the standard yuppy chain stores. Every vacant lot (some community gardens), every 2 and 3 story building is being built on to the point where little green space other than the few local parks will exist. And it will only get worse.

So yes, I miss the old New York. In fact I was watching an old movie the other day that showed Harlem back in '83, '84 and my, how things have changed, and not exactly for the good.

I was kinda on your side until you said Harlem in 1983. I don't know what you saw, but a study was done in 1977 that young men in Bangladesh (a thrid world country) had a lower death rate than an AA male in Harlem. Personally, they were being nice. Harlem was pretty ****ing bad as far back as the 1930s, once heroin hit in the 1960s, Harlem was long gone...

[briarwood]

Originally Posted by Concept

it wasnt 'relatively' cheaper. it was downright cheaper. c'mon are u kidding...u could live on the west side, yorkville, downtown, etc, at a fraction of the price. u had working/middle class folks all over manhattan. they are no where to be found now. there is easily way more segragation in manhattan now...either ur living large or very poor.

Those neighborhoods were nothing like they are today. Almost the entire Charles Bronson movie "Death Wish" took place in the UWS in 70'-80's area. Yorkville was okay. Downtown varied from nice (Greenwich village) to burned-down drug riddled ghetto (Losadia, Alphabet City, LES, Tribeca, Chinatown).


Trust me, 99% of you yuppies would not have even paid 1970s prices to live downtown.

[FutureCop]

Originally Posted by vitalove

I miss the old New York. No, it wasn't perfect, hardly clean, segregated and crime and drug ridden. But it was real. It was eclectic, artistic, funky, creative and unique.

Today's New York. I hardly recognize some places anymore and it sure feels terribly weird. We pretend that segregation doesn't exist here anymore when in reality there's an economic segregation movement going on. All the mom and pop stores and funky boutiques are forced to close and are being replaced by the standard yuppy chain stores. Every vacant lot (some community gardens), every 2 and 3 story building is being built on to the point where little green space other than the few local parks will exist. And it will only get worse.

So yes, I miss the old New York. In fact I was watching an old movie the other day that showed Harlem back in '83, '84 and my, how things have changed, and not exactly for the good.

Oh, come on. New York has more variety of restaurants, shops, and people than anywhere in the world. Those yuppies will never take over the whole city. I was walking around the city last night (Lower East Side area) and saw drug addicts, homeless people lying on the pavement, and hookers. You people spend way too much time in Times Square. People see a street sweeper in these neighborhoods and automatically that neighborhood is yuppified. It’s ridiculous. NYC will always be the most unique, diverse, and real.

[Guywithacause]

Futurecop...I agree. Of course the news stories and the tunnel vision will show that the city is now the playground of the wealthy and their yuppified offspring, but that is blatantly false. Anyone with half a brain and 1 decent eye can see that the city has the same problems it has always had, drug abuse, crime, thugs, and filth...only now it is not as obvious in all areas, but still alive and well in many! The city retains its diversity in housing stock,
restaurants, cultures, and classes of people.

Briarwood I agree with you also. These yuppies of today would not have paid, nor lived in these areas in the 70s...it was a completely different time. Relatively speaking it was cheaper, but the city was always expensive, except back then it was expensive and also very dangerous, filthy, with terrible housing conditions/stock. What these yuppies are finding today in these "new" neighborhoods like Williamsburg and Harlem is the result of 25 years of work and improvement that has set the stage for the new people to come in. The hard part has already been done.

[vitalove]

Originally Posted by briarwood

I was kinda on your side until you said Harlem in 1983. I don't know what you saw, but a study was done in 1977 that young men in Bangladesh (a thrid world country) had a lower death rate than an AA male in Harlem. Personally, they were being nice. Harlem was pretty ****ing bad as far back as the 1930s, once heroin hit in the 1960s, Harlem was long gone...

Briarwood, I was referring to an old movie in Harlem that showed it in 1983. I happen to have grown up in Harlem during the 1980s. And not all of it was bad or as it was portrayed. Clearly that secret was found out in the late 80s and 90s and then gentrification began.

The movie showed old community stores, restaurants and shops that have been pushed out to new demand for stores like Starbucks. And yes, I miss my old mom and pop stores. Can't help that I'm a native new yorker and I know the real city, not this mess it has turned into.

Futurecop, I never hang out in Times Square. I avoid that area like the plague. I was referring to my last trip down to Greenwich Village and I couldn't believe how many stores and restaurants have closed recently. So many 'for rent' signs in the window. And this is a trendy, hot spot area that has really increased in population, popularity and money in the last two decades.

Guywithacause...I can't help but feel that your statement about the "hard part being over" refers to the pushing out of the natives of Harlem and Williamsburg (and any other community experiencing gentrification) and it's a tad elitist (dare I say racist). You're naive to think you've gotten rid of the so-called undesirables as you're only getting rid of the hardworking working class and middle class people. And at this rate, it'll be back to the 70s and 80s when people were scrambling into their doorman protected high rise condo and coops. When you leave only the poor and rich here, it'll be a lot worse than that. You'll be lucky if your doorman will actually be able to protect you. Good luck with that.